[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[DavidinSouthampton]

I honestly don’t see it that way. I would argue that single party governments often get drunk on their own power, and coalitions check the largest party from unleashing unpopular policies/vanity projects on the public without too much scrutiny.

The whole art of politics is meant to be compromise, it’s only in the U.K. and US that it’s entirely childish and adversarial. Our electoral system encourages these bizarre excesses, it leads to attention seeking children being given positions of power.

What coalitions do is force parties to find common ground. It’s possible for that to lead to better policy than a single party unchecked. Neither Labour or Liberal parties want to fail, through self-interest if nothing else. If it happens, they’ll find a way.

Coalitions seem to work for Germany, and the allies forced proportional representation on them after the end of WW2.

 

[chickens]

The Conservative issue is that outside of Sunak it’s loonies all the way down.

Lee Anderson and Suella Braverman in positions of responsibility does not suggest grown-up competence, they’re culture warriors playing at being politicians.

Lee Anderson is Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party. That, frankly, tells you everything you need to know.

 

[Javeaseagull]

I think of our system as an elected dictatorship. When Thatcher and Blair were elected with large majorities they were, effectively, dictatorships. They could do whatever they wanted for a few years before facing the electorate again. When the Con/Lib coalition took over I thought that was quite progressive. The tax threshold was raised (Lib Dem initiative) for the first time for years having been frozen by Brown as a stealth tax. The Tories of course took credit for that and stitched up the libs with the student fees fiasco. The tories are crafty bastards, I will give them that.

 

[Bodian]

Their nightmare scenario is a coalition between Labour and a significant Lib Dem vote which manages to get a change in the electoral system over the line.

Bring it on.

 

[Mellotron]

Personally, that's the sort of outcome I've been hoping would come around for a long while. A decent centre-left coalition/pact could see the Tories out for much of the rest of my life.

Exactly this.

 

[A1X]

The Conservative issue is that outside of Sunak it’s loonies all the way down.

Lee Anderson and Suella Braverman in positions of responsibility does not suggest grown-up competence, they’re culture warriors playing at being politicians.

Lee Anderson is Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party. That, frankly, tells you everything you need to know.

Most parties which have been in power for too long ultimately run out of talent, it’s happening now as it happened at the arse end of the Labour government before it, and the Tory one before that.

 

[nicko31]

Is the PM Sunakered ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

The Conservative issue is that outside of Sunak it’s loonies all the way down.

Lee Anderson and Suella Braverman in positions of responsibility does not suggest grown-up competence, they’re culture warriors playing at being politicians.

Lee Anderson is Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party. That, frankly, tells you everything you need to know.

And you're trying to put the case that these loonies were all appointed by someone not doing stupid things ?

 

[Guinness Boy]

It's incredibly exciting isn't it! - in less than 18 months, Kier will be in Downing Street and England will be ruled from Scotland. Least, that's what I'll be voting for - wont you?

We’ve only got Brexit done because we were ruled from Northern Ireland. All of that went well.

 

[Flex Your Head]

I was pretty sure my next door neighbour was a Tory, but this morning he's put a load of bunting and union jacks up to celebrate their massive losses.

At least I think that's what it's for

 

[Hugo Rune]

Sir Kier needs to reverse some laws when he gets in.

Being arrested for peaceful protest IS NOT OK.

Dozens of protesters arrested during Coronation

Republic CEO Graham Smith was among 52 detained in London, as protests were held around the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

It’s seems that pissing off Tories is an arrestable offence now.

 

[Audax]

This is exactly why the tories will be relaxed about this. . . Thdey'll pull some bullshit out of the bag and still cling on because no one else will co-operate

sadly half the nation are idiotic/selfish scum With no interest in the greater good. It's all they've known for over 40 years.

I actually looked through the ward-by-ward results for Wealden. Looks an awful lot like the left-sided parties agreed not to compete against each other. In the vast majority of cases where a Con was beaten by a LDem, Green, or Lab there was no 3rd party competition.

Edit: I love a spreadsheet... There's a few wards were Cons got in because the opposing vote was split (usually LDem vs Grn). Overall, Cons stood in all wards but 1 (and won one uncontested). LDem's stood in just over half (21 of the 41), Greens in 13, Labour in 10, and Independents in 19. Reform stood in 1 ward and split the vote (RFM + Con would have beat LDem who actually won). Overall, just under 26k anti-Tory votes cast (LDem + Lab + Grn), 19k pro-Tory (Con + RFM + UKIP), and 8.2k Indy votes. Looks to me like Ghani won't be hoovering up 60% at the next GE, question will be whether Lab/Grn/LDem voters can get behind a single anti-Tory candidate in enough numbers to take advantage of any collapse in Tory vote share.

From memory at the last GE Wealden was a problem for tactical voting. There were multiple tactical voting sites, none of them managed to gain traction as "the one" to rely on, and the two biggest ones disagreed on whether the best tactical vote was Lab or LDem. If for next year the anti-Tory groups can be sensible and all agree on a single tactical voting site, with a single advised anti-Tory candidate per seat, then something might happen. Question is, who? LDem's very strong showing in Council election this week, but very little in the way of Lab candidates for folks that way inclined to vote for. But also ... is there a groundswell of support for the Greens? A poor 4th at the last GE, but they've nearly tripled their seats on the council this week. Or is that just a product of the wards where they won being a Green vs Con race with no alternative?

 

[zefarelly]

I actually looked through the ward-by-ward results for Wealden. Looks an awful lot like the left-sided parties agreed not to compete against each other. In the vast majority of cases where a Con was beaten by a LDem, Green, or Lab there was no 3rd party competition.

Edit: I love a spreadsheet... There's a few wards were Cons got in because the opposing vote was split (usually LDem vs Grn). Overall, Cons stood in all wards but 1 (and won one uncontested). LDem's stood in just over half (21 of the 41), Greens in 13, Labour in 10, and Independents in 19. Reform stood in 1 ward and split the vote (RFM + Con would have beat LDem who actually won). Overall, just under 26k anti-Tory votes cast (LDem + Lab + Grn), 19k pro-Tory (Con + RFM + UKIP), and 8.2k Indy votes. Looks to me like Ghani won't be hoovering up 60% at the next GE, question will be whether Lab/Grn/LDem voters can get behind a single anti-Tory candidate in enough numbers to take advantage of any collapse in Tory vote share.

From memory at the last GE Wealden was a problem for tactical voting. There were multiple tactical voting sites, none of them managed to gain traction as "the one" to rely on, and the two biggest ones disagreed on whether the best tactical vote was Lab or LDem. If for next year the anti-Tory groups can be sensible and all agree on a single tactical voting site, with a single advised anti-Tory candidate per seat, then something might happen. Question is, who? LDem's very strong showing in Council election this week, but very little in the way of Lab candidates for folks that way inclined to vote for. But also ... is there a groundswell of support for the Greens? A poor 4th at the last GE, but they've nearly tripled their seats on the council this week. Or is that just a product of the wards where they won being a Green vs Con race with no alternative?

Adur has been blue for 100 years . . . Laughton needs shoving out to sea in a leaking dinghy, it will only happen if Green or yellew field a decent candidate and there is tactical voting. I don't think Labour can win here, but usually come a distant 2nd.

 

[Machiavelli]

That’s a “things went wrong” from a values and philosophy point of view.

@jcdenton08 was saying that strong majority government gets things done and coalition doesn’t. I was pointing out that the Con Lib coalition did get things done while the country has been in complete chaos under the huge majority won by Boris.

Personally I think a progressive coalition of Labour, Lib Dem, Green and SNP would be great next time out. It’s how the majority vote. The vast majority of the country couldn’t give a shiny shit about Brexit or the culture wars. They vote for parties other than the Tories but spread that vote across three or four of them.

Largely agree (although pretty sure that many gave enormous shiny shits about Brexit -- but think your point is that they no longer do)

 

[Guinness Boy]

Largely agree (although pretty sure that many gave enormous shiny shits about Brexit -- but think your point is that they no longer do)

Exactly my point. The Tories are still trying to weaponise something that many of us have now just accepted will make us worse off, less tolerant and more inconvenienced.

^^(irony intended. I mean very few people will now vote for or against the Tories purely because of Brexit)

 

[A1X]

At least I think that's what it's

Sir Kier needs to reverse some laws when he gets in.

Being arrested for peaceful protest IS NOT OK.

Dozens of protesters arrested during Coronation

Republic CEO Graham Smith was among 52 detained in London, as protests were held around the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

It’s seems that pissing off Tories is an arrestable offence now.

Especially chilling given the protest had all been agreed and signed off by the Met before the event, sounds like the Home Office flexing their muscles and overruling them

 

[sparkie]

I really hope the Tories reflect and turn away from being a far right blukip libertarian cult and back into a 1 nation party delivering for the people. Sort the economy, join EFTA and refill the produce on the near-empty-little-choice-small-shrivelled-expensive-product supermarket shelves.

But sadly they won't

 

[Bodian]

Especially chilling given the protest had all been agreed and signed off by the Met before the event, sounds like the Home Office flexing their muscles and overruling them

Isn't this sort of thing what we were told wouldn't happen with the new powers/laws.......

 

[jcdenton08]

I honestly don’t see it that way. I would argue that single party governments often get drunk on their own power, and coalitions check the largest party from unleashing unpopular policies/vanity projects on the public without too much scrutiny.

The whole art of politics is meant to be compromise, it’s only in the U.K. and US that it’s entirely childish and adversarial. Our electoral system encourages these bizarre excesses, it leads to attention seeking children being given positions of power.

What coalitions do is force parties to find common ground. It’s possible for that to lead to better policy than a single party unchecked. Neither Labour or Liberal parties want to fail, through self-interest if nothing else. If it happens, they’ll find a way.

Didn’t the exact opposite happen when Clegg lied and backdoored his way into power, ruining his career, handing the Tories a majority and five consecutive terms virtually unopposed?

Liberals hurt the country just as much as the Tories by losing all their good will for a generation, letting the Tories secure their position and become the vulgar beast we see today.

Success is hard to measure, the only universally accepted successful coalition in the last two centuries was one of necessity in war time in the 1940’s.

 

[A1X]

Isn't this sort of thing what we were told wouldn't happen with the new powers/laws.......

The road to fascism is paved with people telling others not to overreact