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[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...



A1X

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Sep 1, 2017
18,694
Deepest, darkest Sussex




St Leonards Seagull

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Jul 10, 2012
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Interesting that a company with a history of PPE provision was ignored and some with no history of PPE were awarded contracts via the VIP fast lane.
You would have thought the first stop when looking for PPE in an epidemic would be with a company within the industry. I guess it’s who you know 🤡
 


dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,219
I note that you haven't responded to the previous question I posed. Might that be because the answer is uncomfortable for what you're attempting to achieve?
Just in case you've been busy, here it is again:
Can you share with us the following information please:
1, what proportion of GDP does the US spend on healthcare?
2, what proportion of GDP does the UK spend on healthcare?

You're also exercised about the amount of money spent on the NHS over the past eight years, and using this to forward the agenda that a public service is 'inefficient'. Now, let's have a look at two bits of data on this. I'll add some analysis to it too -- I'm sure you'll disagree with this, but we'll leave it up to others to form their judgment. So, first:


Osborne's (dreadful) austerity policy starved the NHS for three years -- following on from an impressive upturn in funding from New Labour (although this isn't accounted for in this graph). You conveniently ignore these three years, and want to start your analysis at the point that spending did actually start to increase. The NHS (and all healthcare systems in the 'developed' world) need extra resources each year, because there's an increased demand -- estimated at 4%pa -- due to an ageing population. So, by your starting point, the NHS was well shy of resources, and the government had to start firefighting, which accounts for most of the increases over the following years (13/14 to 19/20). There was then a massive spike in 20/21, which was for Covid. Included in that extra amount was the creation of separation between CV and non-CV treatment in hospitals, Nightingales, PPE, mass testing, provision of free tests to the public, the cost of treating a 'once in a century pandemic', and so on.
Given that demand has increased 4% year on year for 12 years, and the cost of CV, the extra funding really isn't that much, and way, way behind what it should be if supply were to meet demand.
Now, let's also factor this chart in from the Nuffield Trust, which I don't think requires too much analysis (see: https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/ne...-and-future-of-government-spending-on-the-nhs)

Changes in health spending per capita, adjusted for demographic changes​

Time period, political partyAverage annual change in per capita health spending (adjusted)
1979–1997, Conservatives+2.03%
1997–2010, Labour+5.67%
2010–2015, Con/Lib coalition-0.07%
2015–2021, Conservatives-0.03%
2021–2024, Conservatives – committed spend+2.05%
The graph started in 2013-14. I couldn't comment on data I didn't have.

I don't know what the USA spends on healthcare, but I would suggest that we don't want to be using them as an example. Because of their peculiar system they are vastly inefficient, far more inefficient than the NHS, and I certainly wouldn't want to follow that line. Far better to compare other European countries, and in that we're about mid-table. Average spending, below average outcomes.

The number of old people in this country has risen from 6,548,912 to 8,118,210 (all ages over 70) and 2,592,693 to 2,969,955 (all ages over 80) which is 24% and 11% respectively, between the two censuses of 2011 and 2021. England and Wales figures only. I don't see from that how the expected budget should rise by 4% per year, or 48% over 10 years, because of increasing age. You can factor in a few more percentagepoints for overall poipulation increase too, and you're still nowhere near 48%.

I don't agree that the 2022-23 budget includes large multi-billions for covid firefightingand mass testing. That may be why the budget spiked, but it the budget hasn't gone back down again so that money is still there to be efficiently spent. And it isn't being spent on more operations and more treatment, not at present anyway.
 


nicko31

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Jan 7, 2010
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Gods country fortnightly
Interesting that a company with a history of PPE provision was ignored and some with no history of PPE were awarded contracts via the VIP fast lane.
You would have thought the first stop when looking for PPE in an epidemic would be with a company within the industry. I guess it’s who you know 🤡
There are countless reports of vendors on approved lists not getting calls returned. There was a clear agenda to use an emergency to reward connected individuals.
 


The Clamp

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Jan 11, 2016
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There are countless reports of vendors on approved lists not getting calls returned. There was a clear agenda to use an emergency to reward connected individuals.
Most of the Covid era cabinet should be sat in prison cells. But there will be no justice. The age of justice is long, long behind us.
 




nicko31

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Jan 7, 2010
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Gods country fortnightly
Most of the Covid era cabinet should be sat in prison cells. But there will be no justice. The age of justice is long, long behind us.
Interesting there corruption going on in the EU right now concerning Qatar, its being dealt with promptly.

Here you can bet nothing will happen. Meanwhile the country is broke and can't give the very frontline workers that were clapped during the pandemic a proper payrise.
 


The Clamp

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Jan 11, 2016
24,955
West is BEST
Interesting there corruption going on in the EU right now concerning Qatar, its being dealt with promptly.

Here you can bet nothing will happen. Meanwhile the country is broke and can't give the very frontline workers that were clapped during the pandemic a proper payrise.
I just take it as an absolute given that they will get off Scott free. It’s almost not worth reading the stories. Which I imagine is their whole idea.
 


dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,219
There are countless reports of vendors on approved lists not getting calls returned. There was a clear agenda to use an emergency to reward connected individuals.
I do wonder if any of the civil servants should share the blame. It hasn't really been made clear whether the ministers were solely in charge of procurement of PPE and made decisions for all the contracts, or whether the ministers were doing what they could to source extra supplies while expecting the civil servants to deal with existing companies. I suspect the latter.

Is there any evidence that ministers gave specific orders that companies like Arco must not be used, or was it just a catalogue of incompetence where the civil servants who normally dealt with Arco couldn't cope with the change of circumstances and the ministers' attention was focussed on searching for new sources of supply, not realising that their staff couldn't even find the existing sources?
 




CHAPPERS

DISCO SPENG
Jul 5, 2003
44,837
Interesting there corruption going on in the EU right now concerning Qatar, its being dealt with promptly.

Here you can bet nothing will happen. Meanwhile the country is broke and can't give the very frontline workers that were clapped during the pandemic a proper payrise.

The number of UK billionaires has increased by a fifth since the onset of the Covid pandemic, according to a report calling for a progressive wealth tax to tackle rising inequality amid the cost of living crisis.

The Equality Trust charity said interventions by governments and central banks during the pandemic allowed for an “explosion of billionaire wealth” in Britain at the expense of the rest of society, after fuelling a boom in property values and on the stock market.


At the onset of the global health emergency three years ago, the Bank of England and other big central banks around the world crashed interest rates to zero and pumped billions of pounds into financial markets through their quantitative easing bond-buying programmes. Aimed at softening the edges of the worst recession in three centuries by supporting businesses, households and governments with lower borrowing costs, the report found the policies also helped inflate asset prices, helping to line the pockets of wealthy investors.
 


The Clamp

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Jan 11, 2016
24,955
West is BEST
I do wonder if any of the civil servants should share the blame. It hasn't really been made clear whether the ministers were solely in charge of procurement of PPE and made decisions for all the contracts, or whether the ministers were doing what they could to source extra supplies while expecting the civil servants to deal with existing companies. I suspect the latter.

Is there any evidence that ministers gave specific orders that companies like Arco must not be used, or was it just a catalogue of incompetence where the civil servants who normally dealt with Arco couldn't cope with the change of circumstances and the ministers' attention was focussed on searching for new sources of supply, not realising that their staff couldn't even find the existing sources?
No. The Tory cabinet side stepped established PPE companies and fast tracked their chums into millions of pounds worth of useless PPE contracts.

The reasons I’m convinced of this are manifold but for starters;

- One or two examples might possibly be written off as incompetence down the chain. Possibly. But there are dozens of reports of this happening.

- The government at the time has been found to be proven law breakers. Corruption and sleaze oozed out of every pore (It still does).

- “Let the bodies pile high”
 


The Clamp

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Jan 11, 2016
24,955
West is BEST
And not only do they give contracts to their chums and risk the lives of tens of thousands of essential key workers, including mine and my colleagues, but now they double down on their corruption…..


REVEALED: Tory donor’s company awarded £4.5 million Government contract to take care of mountain of unusable PPE waste….​


I absolutely f***ing detest the Tory’s.
 




nicko31

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Jan 7, 2010
17,804
Gods country fortnightly
And not only do they give contracts to their chums and risk the lives of tens of thousands of essential key workers, including mine and my colleagues, but now they double down on their corruption…..


REVEALED: Tory donor’s company awarded £4.5 million Government contract to take care of mountain of unusable PPE waste….​


I absolutely f***ing detest the Tory’s.
The current iteration of the Tory party main objective is not enrich themselves and their mates. The greed is endless, they can't help themselves, its in their DNA.
 








Peteinblack

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Jun 3, 2004
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Bath, Somerset.
Yet Lord Cruddas thinks that Rishi Sunak now leads a centre-Left government, and that Britain needs Nigel Farage to resume leadership of Reform UK to protect and pursue genuine Right-wing and pro-Brexit policies.


Every time I think these Hard Right swivel-eyed headbangers can't become any more deranged, they somehow surpass themselves. Their delusions would be hilarious if they weren't so dangerous.

This, I suspect, is why there is so much vitriol devoted to asylum seekers, and Meghan Markle, right now - keep the masses' attention distracted and diverted, and ensure that their anger and hatred is directed away from this cruel, corrupt, crony, government of millionaires.
 










nicko31

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Jan 7, 2010
17,804
Gods country fortnightly
That is a measure of how delusional/sneaky the Johnson-loving billionaire actually is.
Of course there will be more pro-Johnson cronies to come for the HOL. Still no list, and it seems Truss has one too (no thats not a joke)
 


Peteinblack

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Jun 3, 2004
3,735
Bath, Somerset.
The same party that just got granted high court approval to transport refugees to Rwanda? That centre left party?
The very same; also, the Party which is also threatening more anti-trade union laws to prevent workers standing-up for themselves in an era of poverty wages, boardroom greed, and high inflation!
 


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