This government is in tatters, u-turn after u-turn. Are they leading the country any more?

[Buzzer]

I think the answer here (from being married to a teacher) is that
i) he's attempting to change much more than most previous secretaries have
ii) he's very clearly not listening to his advisers or anyone at the DfE, let alone people on the ground in schools
iii) he comes across as a particularly odious slimeball

To me, a decent minister should (or rather, would - in an ideal world politics wouldn't come into it) be attempting to introduce adjustments to existing policy in line with his parties beliefs that move policy in a general direction, and should take advice from experts (both in his department and in the industry writ large) to moderate and adjust these on the basis of evidence. Gove has been attempting to force through his own personal beliefs with no evidence base or expert support at all.

I take that onboard. I've no idea if he's crap or not - it doesn't sound as if he's anything but rubbish. As far as I can remember though, every government has had education ministers who haven't just tinkered but made wholsesale changes, effectively stamp their mark.

Let's face it, the left-leaning press and posters on here never seemed to mind when Labour made similar appointments. Imagine the field day certain people would have had on here if Gove had been a fully paid up member of Opus Dei as Ruth Kelly, a previous education minister was/is.

 

[jgmcdee]

i like Gove, there i said it. he get stuff done, doesnt fanny around and batters the opposition and journo's. too few politicians are unable to play a straight bat, last one to spring to mind was Darling.

why is it when he acknowledges a plan isnt going to work out, its too ambitious and needs to be scaled back, its a U-turn?

Because he is promoting his own opinions as Government policy, without any attempt at consultation even within his own party let alone his coalition partners or the wider interested audience, rather than taking a look at what education actually needs and moving ahead with that.

It's not so much a U-turn as finally accepting that the initial idea was crap and was never going to get anywhere. A U-turn suggests that it was going somewhere in the first place, which it wasn't. The terror is that some of his other equally well thought-out ideas probably will make it through, on strength of numbers alone.

 

[Don Quixote]

No matter what you think about Balls, he was an infinitely better Education Secretary.

 

[beorhthelm]

It's pertinent to Gove because he is so at odds with teachers, parents and his own education experts and advisors and wishes to pursue his own agenda - one which so many are stating (and I include my partner's view) is regressive and not for the benefit of education as a whole. Who knows? He could be right, and everyone else is wrong - but he hasn't really provided any evidence to state that

as i understand his changes are modeled on various methods and practices from across europe, which experts have been saying for years we should adopt. now a tory government is doing so, other experts are saying the ideas are poor. depends on what expert you ask doesnt it? i hate politicians meddling in education, but the GSCE standard has got ridiculously poor.

- - - Updated - - -

It's pertinent to Gove because he is so at odds with teachers, parents and his own education experts and advisors and wishes to pursue his own agenda - one which so many are stating (and I include my partner's view) is regressive and not for the benefit of education as a whole. Who knows? He could be right, and everyone else is wrong - but he hasn't really provided any evidence to state that

as i understand his changes are modeled on various methods and practices from across europe, which experts have been saying for years we should adopt. now a tory government is doing so, other experts are saying the ideas are poor. depends on what expert you ask doesnt it? i hate politicians meddling in education, but the GSCE standard has got ridiculously poor.

 

[RexCathedra]

To answer the question posed by the OP: If you've got a functioning democracy, the people lead, and the government follows.
There's a very good chance you're looking at the very government the people want, whether by active choice or by passive acquiescence.

The present denizens of the Treasury bench weren't installed by a foreign army of occupation. Or to quote the Sage of Baltimore, H.L. Mencken: "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it -- good and hard."

-

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

the debt was lower but rising, the deficit was growing and was budgeted to continue growing as spending accelerated and revenues in declinded.

But some spending was needed. The country was literally crumbling and falling apart.

 

[The Large One]

I take that onboard. I've no idea if he's crap or not - it doesn't sound as if he's anything but rubbish. As far as I can remember though, every government has had education ministers who haven't just tinkered but made wholsesale changes, effectively stamp their mark.

Let's face it, the left-leaning press and posters on here never seemed to mind when Labour made similar appointments. Imagine the field day certain people would have had on here if Gove had been a fully paid up member of Opus Dei as Ruth Kelly, a previous education minister was/is.

The point is that it's not so much about the experience and background (though that is an important point), you don't have Philip Hammond telling soldiers how to fight, or Jeremy Hunt telling surgeons how to operate, or Patrick McLoughlin telling bus drivers how to drive or Owen Paterson telling dairy farmers how milk their cows... but you are getting Michael Gove telling teachers how to teach.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I take that onboard. I've no idea if he's crap or not - it doesn't sound as if he's anything but rubbish. As far as I can remember though, every government has had education ministers who haven't just tinkered but made wholsesale changes, effectively stamp their mark.

Let's face it, the left-leaning press and posters on here never seemed to mind when Labour made similar appointments. Imagine the field day certain people would have had on here if Gove had been a fully paid up member of Opus Dei as Ruth Kelly, a previous education minister was/is.

Agreed the Opus Dei thing was very creepy and yes every education secretary sets out to create revolutionary changes.

Specifically on secondary education Shoreham and Lancing have gained a couple of excellent academy schools with first class facilities and in Shoreham in particular the turnaround has been astonishing. We heard plenty at the time that PPI was unaffordable, but right now this looks like an inspired decision and locally standards have improved, through strategic investment.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

To answer the question posed by the OP: If you've got a functioning democracy, the people lead, and the government follows.
There's a very good chance you're looking at the very government the people want, whether by active choice or by passive acquiescence.

Sadly I cannot disagree with this. Hopefully the nation will look themselves in the mirror and think "never again" and get off their arses and vote these clowns out at the first opportunity.

 

[User removed 4]

While today's news is mostly about secondary school education, I am answering this from the standpoint of primary school education. So I answer with my partner's school in mind (happy now, bushy?).I know today's story is about eBacc, but Gove also intends to bring in 'core knowledge' teaching, at the expense of all other kinds of education. Under Gove's ideas for teaching methods, her school wouldn't stand a chance. Her learning philosophy is completely at odds with Gove's - and yet he would wish to impose this upon her school, especially as she is in the throes of going for Free School Status. She is doing this with a view (more a hope) that Gove's philosophy not being imposed. I hope for her sake it's not wishful thinking on her part, and they're not going to.

The point is, when Labour brought in things like 'numeracy and literacy hour', Labour didn't impose this kind of stuff on her, so there wasn't anything to get so cross about. However, it is quite right that someone with education experience ought to be Education Secretary.

Similarly, Labour brought in credits in order to have a programme of sending every 3-4 year old to school / nursery. From my partner's point of view, that was a good thing. I appreciate that's not about the nature of the styles of education, more about funding and social improvement.

Similarly, while the previous DfES allowed her in 2004 to join the state system, the then Labour council in Brighton & Hove blocked it for reasons which didn't stand up, and I was quite vociferous about it (though most others got completely bored of it).

Fair play mate

 

[Buzzer]

Sadly I cannot disagree with this. Hopefully the nation will look themselves in the mirror and think never again at the next election and get off their arses and vote these clowns out.

I sort of disagree. I look at the last lot, look at the current lot and look at the alternatives and have gone beyond caring now. I doubt I'll ever vote again in an election.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

in Shoreham in particular the turnaround has been astonishing

All very well when you cherry pick your intake

Academies use covert selection methods to skew intake, report finds | Education | The Guardian

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Sadly I cannot disagree with this. Hopefully the nation will look themselves in the mirror and think "never again" and get off their arses and vote these clowns out at the first opportunity.

You dont get the government you need, you get the government you deserve.

Very sad but true.

 

[Larry]

The people think that goverments run the country, they do in a way but the truth is News Paper Editors, through thier OWNERS I.E. THE BARCLAY BROTHERS.and such people call all the shots.This PRIME MINISTER CAMERON if one can call him that,is in thier pockets and when they say jump he dose.He is not the only one though all before him are the same exept for BROWN. I dont think anyone voted for this so called goverment and the sooner it's replaced the better for all.It dose not matter which party forms the next goverment has long has it's just one party goverment.The Liberal party will be back to six M.P. if they are lucky so a one party goverment should be more likely.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

No matter what you think about Balls, he was an infinitely better Education Secretary.

I'd suggest it would be difficult to differentiate between the two. My partner used to work in the nursery industry and Balls proposed to slash the money given to nurseries to take children on the government vouchers scheme. He visited one of the company's nurseries and the MD challenged him on the figures as it meant every nursery would make a significant loss from having to take the cut in funding. Balls answer - tough !!! It wouldn't be so bad but nurseries weren't legally allowed not to accept the vouchers.

Balls as Chancellor is a horrific thought !!!!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I sort of disagree. I look at the last lot, look at the current lot and look at the alternatives and have gone beyond caring now. I doubt I'll ever vote again in an election.

Fair enough. This is felt by many. I appreciate my party is not perfect but at the very least I believe they offer a fairer society (please note I say fairer...not fair).

 

[CheeseRolls]

All very well when you cherry pick your intake

Academies use covert selection methods to skew intake, report finds | Education | The Guardian

Really not the case here. Bear in mind my own kids go to Cardinal Newman. Shoreham was suffering badly from parents voting with their feet and sending their kids to schools in Brighton, Worthing and even Steyning. The early success they have achieved with better facilities, will help to reverse this.

 

[ROSM]

The irony here is that public opinion regarding Gove has been low for a while, but the more right wing press has been championing him. Now he has made a tweak, u-turn, replan or whatever you want to call it he will move further away from those champions.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

I sort of disagree. I look at the last lot, look at the current lot and look at the alternatives and have gone beyond caring now. I doubt I'll ever vote again in an election.

Sadly I feel the same, completely dis-enfranchised.

 

[ROSM]

I'd suggest it would be difficult to differentiate between the two. My partner used to work in the nursery industry and Balls proposed to slash the money given to nurseries to take children on the government vouchers scheme. He visited one of the company's nurseries and the MD challenged him on the figures as it meant every nursery would make a significant loss from having to take the cut in funding. Balls answer - tough !!! It wouldn't be so bad but nurseries weren't legally allowed not to accept the vouchers.

Balls as Chancellor is a horrific thought !!!!

Tell you what, nurseries could just have less staff and more kids. That's bound to work!