They're close to getting it right, and no one questions this. That's my point
[News] The World at War
- Thread starter Zeberdi
- Start date
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I'm bored with it all, as each and every one of them are a bunch of ****s. Just piss off or blow up the world - I'm almost past caring.
rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,420
the learning process is truly astonishing, isn't it?
- Oct 17, 2008
- 17,552
Bloody great series. My old history teacher Mr Waters at Stringer used to show it to us - was my first exposure to Larry Olivier’s work too 
everyone else was mucking abaaaht but I would watch intently. Bloody good programme to this day if you like history
everyone else was mucking abaaaht but I would watch intently. Bloody good programme to this day if you like history
armchairclubber
Well-known member
Starmer repeats call for de-escalation, moves jets to Middle East
UK moves jets to Middle East as Starmer refuses to rule out defending Israel
Military assets to provide ‘contingency support’ as PM repeats call for de-escalation after Iran’s retaliatory strikeswww.theguardian.com
“I will always make the right decisions for the UK,”
OK Keir
jakarta
Well-known member
Recently bought the Richard Holmes book of The World at War which essentially is much of the stuff that was edited out of the magnificent series due to the time scales the producer was given (26 episodes @ 52 minutes).Bloody great series. My old history teacher Mr Waters at Stringer used to show it to us - was my first exposure to Larry Olivier’s work too
Slowly chugging through it, fascinating and horrifying in equal measure...
It should be compulsary viewing in schools to show the true horrors of war.Bloody great series. My old history teacher Mr Waters at Stringer used to show it to us - was my first exposure to Larry Olivier’s work too
I re-watched the first three episodes yesterday after this thread pointed me to U streaming. The first episode charting the rise of the Nazis has some compelling and scarey comparisons to what is happening in the US currently.
I’ve always felt the same about Schindler's list as a way of illustrating where extremism, racism, bigotry of any sort (not only anti semitism) can take us.
Learning about causes and consequences is far more important than dates and battles.
Fritz the Cat
Member
- Jan 6, 2022
- 72
I'm afraid that your view lacks a historical perspective. It was the 'liberal western democracies ' who overthrew the democratically elected Mossadegh and replaced him with the hated Shah. The Shah stayed in power by murder, torture and keeping the bulk of the Iranian people in a state of malnutrition. His regime was certainly 'objectively evil' - and hugely supported by America and Britain. Strangely enough Iranians - and many others in that region -don't see us as 'the good guys' but as hypocrites who assume the mantle of 'freedom and democracy but have actually imposed on many countries some of t6he most repressive regimes imaginable. Even worse is when the West withdraws from a situation and leaves nothing but chaos - Libya, Iraq being the most glaring recent examples.
Reeves ‘not ruling out defending Israel against Iran’ this morning.
I hesitate to ask this here as I don’t want to start another set of anti/pro Israel posts that get out of hand but this is something I don’t understand:
Why would we even consider getting involved militarily? Germany, France etc won’t and we have no more ‘interests’ in the region than anyone else.
Genuine question, would appreciate an informed response please!
I hesitate to ask this here as I don’t want to start another set of anti/pro Israel posts that get out of hand but this is something I don’t understand:
Why would we even consider getting involved militarily? Germany, France etc won’t and we have no more ‘interests’ in the region than anyone else.
Genuine question, would appreciate an informed response please!
- Nov 11, 2009
- 13,435
This.
What Israel have done in Gaza is indefensible and war crimes have been committed against innocent civilians imho.
But taking each situation on its own, Israel has little choice with Iran. In the last stages of developing a nuke and vowing to use it against Israel and wipe them off the earth. There is no good option.
The Fits
Well-known member
- Jun 29, 2020
- 11,015
Because we are Great Britain and we have an over inflated ego, and obsessed with both our relationship with the US and nostalgia. A heady combo.Reeves ‘not ruling out defending Israel against Iran’ this morning.
I hesitate to ask this here as I don’t want to start another set of anti/pro Israel posts that get out of hand but this is something I don’t understand:
Why would we even consider getting involved militarily? Germany, France etc won’t and we have no more ‘interests’ in the region than anyone else.
Genuine question, would appreciate an informed response please!
Jackthelad
Well-known member
- Mar 31, 2010
- 1,370
Evil lead countries don’t just appear overnight. The truth about how countries like Iran became how they are today would shatter the “we are the good guys” myth the media promotes.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 8,973
- Thread starter
- #74
PM’d you but basically Britain has strategic interests throughout the ME which are at risk if the war escalates into a (wider!) regional conflict - including oil interests and military bases.Reeves ‘not ruling out defending Israel against Iran’ this morning.
I hesitate to ask this here as I don’t want to start another set of anti/pro Israel posts that get out of hand but this is something I don’t understand:
Why would we even consider getting involved militarily? Germany, France etc won’t and we have no more ‘interests’ in the region than anyone else.
Genuine question, would appreciate an informed response please!
Iran has threatened to target UK, French and US military personnel in the ME (which they can do by proxy from Iraq) if the UK and US help intercept missiles aimed at Israel.
So we are helping to intercept missiles aimed at Israel
Reeves ‘not ruling out defending Israel against Iran’ this morning.
I hesitate to ask this here as I don’t want to start another set of anti/pro Israel posts that get out of hand but this is something I don’t understand:
Why would we even consider getting involved militarily? Germany, France etc won’t and we have no more ‘interests’ in the region than anyone else.
Genuine question, would appreciate an informed response please!
In order to answer this question properly, you have to separate 'Israel' into the state, the government, the residents, the IDF and the Jewish people.
As we've seen so many times, there are many people on both sides who are simply unable to do this so your caution in starting something that could get out of hand is justified.
The key word from Reeves here is 'defensive', Israel is still an ally. One could consider this British Government and any other you'd select from the last 40 years or so would take a similar approach to 'Israel' as this:
1. State of Israel = Ally
2. Residents of Israel = Westernised allies.
3. Jewish people = Protected minority in UK and allies abroad.
4. Israel Government = Varies. Two Israeli ministers have personal sanctions against them.
5. IDF - Varies.
The UK Government, alongside the USA and Russia are pushing for deescalation but if Israel request our help to protect their innocent civilians (apparently the US are covertly doing this anyway) the Government would have a big decision to make. We rarely let down our allies.
Ike and Tina Burner
Well-known member
- Mar 22, 2019
- 752
Very condescending, nice one.
My perspective is still the same and I haven't learnt anything new. I said my piece so have no real interest in arguing with the same 20 or so people who dominate these threads, all day every day.
I think (but I dunno really) it's because it's thought/hoped that China will keep their mad neighbor under some control if needed.
Taybha
Whalewhine
If you have all the components to hand you can Google how to make a Nuclear ballistic missile so I'm not believing for 1 moment Iran hasn't already stashed a shit load away in a cupboard under the stairs somewhere.
They scooped up some of the worlds top scientists about 25 years ago for what?
Baking cakes,nah not having it,so if Israel continues to pound Iran I can only see this ending badly for the Eurovision bad boys.
They scooped up some of the worlds top scientists about 25 years ago for what?
Baking cakes,nah not having it,so if Israel continues to pound Iran I can only see this ending badly for the Eurovision bad boys.
Thank you, really helpful. Could you elaborate why this means that the UK might get involved militarily but not (it appears) other European countries? Aside from the immediate post war history, do we have closer ties with Israel or have reason to be a more resolute ally than others?
Unfortunately it’s never really got off the ground but to me this is precisely the scenario for which the allies proposed the League of Nations post WW1 and the United Nations post WW2: collective and collaborative action to prevent escalation. It often feels that, apart from the US, we are the only western nation that stand up. In the 21st century I don’t understand why
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rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,420
i knew as much, you have no interest in learning about reality, nice one
the western allies are beyond reproach, that's just silly
make sure you don't interact with people who know some facts!