The little boy taken to Spain

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

Bet they wish they'd changed their name to McCann,the government would've thrown millions at them by now.

 

[drew]

Appears to be very much a case of the police doing, very possibly, the right thing, but then not knowing when it's time to STOP.

The child has been found, no neglect has been proved, the care of the parents has been proved. What will be gained by their continued detention and possible extradition?

What is currently being reported shows Mr Plod in a very unfavourable light. Time to reassess and let the family get on with doing what they think best for their son. Help is what's required, not the continued use of a very heavy hand.

With due respect, the family are not oncologists. What they think is best might not be what is best. Hopefully Aysha will get fully assessed by the Prague clinic but it still remains to be seen whether Proton therapy is suitable. For his sake let's hope it is.

I suggest you read up on the treatment the UK is offering to their child compared with more advanced treatments elsewhere before judging these poor parents.

Suggest you read up as well. You might then realise that, whilst the NHS do not yet have the facilities (due in 2018) they do pay for people to have this treatment abroad.

The childs life was possibly saved by the extensive police activity and publicity. As a result he will get the best possible treatment but if released and the parents didnt agree with the treatment it could all start again with them taking him again. They obviously love and care for him but are somewhat misguided in their view of what is in his best interests

Up to the point of contacting the police the hospital almost certainly did the right things - but from that point someone didn't try and contact the parents and just made assumptions that the family couldn't care for their son.

If they had checked with the family first they would have found out that everything was ok and they could have discussed the matter further with the family.

They didn't - someone at the hospital went straight to the police overstating the dangers and the police hit red alert and contacted interpol etc which resulted in the family being separated from their child.


This is all proved by both the police and the hospital back peddling admitting they did not follow procedure.

Doctors and nurses do make mistakes and errors of judgement - the police do and cover it up like Hillsborough they go over the top too often

Sorry, but do you know for certain that the Hospital didn't try contacting the parents once they had left the the hospital? I haven't seen this reported somewhere but may have missed it!

 

[drew]

Bet they wish they'd changed their name to McCann,the government would've thrown millions at them by now.

If he hadn't been found then maybe they would have!

 

[desprateseagull]

parents just released, according t'news..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29040124

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

The media have missed a lot of facts, especially the printed press, in relation to this story, preferring to sensationalise a lot of it. One of the main points being that he was never 'snatched' by his parents.

There's a fair bit more to this. Sadly it's meant that a lot of people have very polarised views of it.

 

[drew]

The media have missed a lot of facts, especially the printed press, in relation to this story, preferring to sensationalise a lot of it. One of the main points being that he was never 'snatched' by his parents.

There's a fair bit more to this. Sadly it's meant that a lot of people have very polarised views of it.

I take it that you are privy to a bit more info but can't divulge?

 

[Chicken Runner61]

With due respect, the family are not oncologists. What they think is best might not be what is best. Hopefully Aysha will get fully assessed by the Prague clinic but it still remains to be seen whether Proton therapy is suitable. For his sake let's hope it is.



Suggest you read up as well. You might then realise that, whilst the NHS do not yet have the facilities (due in 2018) they do pay for people to have this treatment abroad.






Sorry, but do you know for certain that the Hospital didn't try contacting the parents once they had left the the hospital? I haven't seen this reported somewhere but may have missed it!

Well if they did they just ignored the family and now they have had to apologise and back down - the hospital have now offered to send the child to have treatment (as you stated) abroad - You do know the parents were well within their rights to do what they did don't you? Just because someone at the hospital didn't like it didn't give them the right to exaggerate the dangers to the police

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

I take it that you are privy to a bit more info but can't divulge?

Indeed, sir.

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

Excellent read, this...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/11068128/Ashya-King-should-be-treated-in-Britain.html?fb

 

[drew]

Well if they did they just ignored the family and now they have had to apologise and back down - the hospital have now offered to send the child to have treatment (as you stated) abroad - You do know the parents were well within their rights to do what they did don't you? Just because someone at the hospital didn't like it didn't give them the right to exaggerate the dangers to the police

So you made it up about the hospital not trying to contact the parents then. Are they sending them for treatment or for assessment. Suggest you read the article posted by carrot cruncher.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

So you made it up about the hospital not trying to contact the parents then. Are they sending them for treatment or for assessment. Suggest you read the article posted by carrot cruncher.

No I think it was on Newsnight when they had two doctors debating it - That is a good article but its only one side of the story and its the heavy-handed ness of how the family were treated thats the problem not what the hospital said or suggested.

I'm not sure why you are against what the parents did, the point being that they didn't actually do anything wrong - Its pretty easy to get an order from a judge if you know how but you are only supposed to apply for one in extreme circumstances. What was needed was proper advice and support - I'm not saying they never got i before you say I am getting an order and interpol was over the top.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

This is a good read too

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ya-king-hampshire-police-southampton-hospital

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

The original police operation had to be launched as it was unknown why he was taken by his parents, hence they needed to find him and make sure he was safe, much the same if any child, especially if they have a life-threatening condition, went missing.

As soon as it was clear the child was in no harm at all, that should have been the end of it, it has simply been taken too far. This needs to be dropped ASAP. Similarly, if parents of an ill child want to seek medical attention for them in another country, why should the hospital stop them ?

 

[Billy the Fish]

Excellent read, this...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/11068128/Ashya-King-should-be-treated-in-Britain.html?fb

Doctors get offended if mere mortals question their opinion or seek an alternative one.

I've still not seen anyone with a medical background try and explain why they didn't think the other therapy was appropriate for this child, they'll only say "we know best, the NHS knows best". That'll be the next bit of backtracking.

 

[drew]

This is a good read too

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ya-king-hampshire-police-southampton-hospital

They disappeared with a seriously ill child and obviously didn't telll the hospital where they were going. According the Gran, she wasn't even told where they were. What should the hospital have done? Just wait until they turn up?

The only thing that I think was very avoidable was the fact the parents were put in jail. Aysha was in a hospital and all they needed to do was keep him under observation. The parents could have been allowed visits every day but, until the issues are resolved, perhaps not left alone with him.

No I think it was on Newsnight when they had two doctors debating it - That is a good article but its only one side of the story and its the heavy-handed ness of how the family were treated thats the problem not what the hospital said or suggested.

I'm not sure why you are against what the parents did, the point being that they didn't actually do anything wrong - Its pretty easy to get an order from a judge if you know how but you are only supposed to apply for one in extreme circumstances. What was needed was proper advice and support - I'm not saying they never got i before you say I am getting an order and interpol was over the top.

These two doctors were not involved with the care of Aysha and were not really talking about the facts of this case. The problem is the parents have a desperately ill child and will want to pursue every avenue at any cost.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

The original police operation had to be launched as it was unknown why he was taken by his parents, hence they needed to find him and make sure he was safe, much the same if any child, especially if they have a life-threatening condition, went missing.

As soon as it was clear the child was in no harm at all, that should have been the end of it, it has simply been taken too far. This needs to be dropped ASAP. Similarly, if parents of an ill child want to seek medical attention for them in another country, why should the hospital stop them ?

Agreed - but once the order was issued by the judge it can't be rescinded easily - even now the child is a still a ward of court until the order runs out - What we need to know is what the hospital told the police to get them to seek an order - an order I understand that is used for terrorists. was it the hospital or the police that criminalised the family.

 

[drew]

Doctors get offended if mere mortals question their opinion or seek an alternative one.

I've still not seen anyone with a medical background try and explain why they didn't think the other therapy was appropriate for this child, they'll only say "we know best, the NHS knows best". That'll be the next bit of backtracking.

Firstly, I don't think you would be too happy if doctors went on television to discus your medical history. They are bound by patient confidentiality which means their hands are tied whilst he parents can chose to say what they like. According to some info I have seen, only 1% of tumours respond to this type of treatment. It's not a case of 'Come to Prague and we will cure you'. He still needs to be assessed there as to whether he is suitable.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

They disappeared with a seriously ill child and obviously didn't telll the hospital where they were going. According the Gran, she wasn't even told where they were. What should the hospital have done? Just wait until they turn up?

The only thing that I think was very avoidable was the fact the parents were put in jail. Aysha was in a hospital and all they needed to do was keep him under observation. The parents could have been allowed visits every day but, until the issues are resolved, perhaps not left alone with him.



These two doctors were not involved with the care of Aysha and were not really talking about the facts of this case. The problem is the parents have a desperately ill child and will want to pursue every avenue at any cost.

Drew - the only point I am arguing with you is that someone acted heavy handedly and its either the hospital or the police - You can keep saying they were acting in the childs interests but as the child wasn't in danger at all and as the family did nothing wrong even in taking him from the hospital the court order almost certainly was obtained by overstating the dangers.

I understand the family had permission to take him from hospital - they just didn't bring him back ( because they were worried the hospital might stop them taking him to get a second opinion or treatment) that wasn't wrong either. That order criminalised that family which is why they were separated from the child - it infers harm and a judge has to get involved - getting the order doesn't mean the hospital were in the right and they may/could be prosecuted for false arrest and imprisonment. the question is what did the hospital tell the CPS to get that order

why should the family have to prove they were not doing wrong? Who was it that gave the information to the police? A doctor? How qualified were they? or was it a manager or secretary acting out of authority?

 

[Chicken Runner61]

These two doctors were not involved with the care of Aysha and were not really talking about the facts of this case. The problem is the parents have a desperately ill child and will want to pursue every avenue at any cost.

No they were talking about the facts of the case - the fact that the hospital / police shouldn't have criminalised the family without knowing where they were, what equipment they had and what they were doing.

The medical facts and problems don't even come in to it - its not for the hospital or the police to jump to conclusions and assume a family is going to harm their child

 

[drew]

Drew - the only point I am arguing with you is that someone acted heavy handedly and its either the hospital or the police - You can keep saying they were acting in the childs interests but as the child wasn't in danger at all and as the family did nothing wrong even in taking him from the hospital the court order almost certainly was obtained by overstating the dangers.

I understand the family had permission to take him from hospital - they just didn't bring him back ( because they were worried the hospital might stop them taking him to get a second opinion or treatment) that wasn't wrong either. That order criminalised that family which is why they were separated from the child - it infers harm and a judge has to get involved - getting the order doesn't mean the hospital were in the right and they may/could be prosecuted for false arrest and imprisonment. the question is what did the hospital tell the CPS to get that order

why should the family have to prove they were not doing wrong? Who was it that gave the information to the police? A doctor? How qualified were they? or was it a manager or secretary acting out of authority?

I think we agree that putting them in prison was over the top. You say the child wasn't in danger. Did you know that when the story first broke on Friday? Did the hospital know he wasn't in danger? The Daily Echo on Friday stated that his the battery on his feeding machine would run down 'and that the hospital didn't know if the family had any spares or knew how to charge it. Surely that is cause for concern.

A statement referred to by the Echo on Friday stated 'When the length of time he had been absent became a cause of concern to staff yesterday afternoon they contacted police after a search of the site and attempts to contact the family were unsuccessful.' That would suggest, contrary to your earlier post that they did try and get hold of the family!!!


The main point I am trying to make is that there is a lot of guess work and untruths by a lot of posters who only want to see one side of the argument.

Your last sentence beggars belief. In this day and age of child abuse and neglect, you honestly don't think that parents need to demonstrate they are doing nothing wrong when they have taken a seriously ill child from a specialist hospital against medical advice and with no apparent strategy other than that they will sell a house in Spain to hopefully fund some treatment in Prague. How long to sell a property in Spain?