[Albion] The Fan Advisory Board Thread

[Goldstone1976]

Acts that are clearly sanctionable - don’t disagree. My comment were based on what happens when it all becomes all about protecting the brand, based on a set of values that aren’t defined. That then becomes a moral judgement, which you’re not allowed to question.

Listen, I’m not here to fall out with anyone on this but there have been a number of cases where the

no one is guilty until they are caught and punished. That’s true but it’s the process of determining guilt that’s proved to be flawed / pointless and, we should all expect to be treated fairly. From the training ground investigation (settled out of court), to various decisions on sanctions, banning fans for actions/comments that weren’t punishable by law, ignoring the police & courts re. ending banning orders or the club not following their own procedures - that’s not ‘fair’, it’s just setting people up to fail and it’s a peculiar moral code to judge other and not reflect on your own failings (ie. Accepting doing something wrong or believing in basic forgiveness). Just makes the club look autocratic. And that’s not the society we live in. That’s what happened in the Post Office scandal, forget you’re dealing with people.

You have very strong feelings about the club not behaving fairly and being autocratic for a ‘new’ member. I take it you or someone very close to you has been on the receiving end of a punishment meted out by the club; why not use your main account to have a pop?

 

[Horses Arse]

You have very strong feelings about the club not behaving fairly and being autocratic for a ‘new’ member. I take it you or someone very close to you has been on the receiving end of a punishment meted out by the club; why not use your main account to have a pop?

I can imagine why, which is an example of what the club has become.

You could take it as the cost of success, but many successful clubs don't seem to follow the same route.

That said, other clubs don't sort things out such as making sure away games and season tickets aren't a closed shop.

Swings and roundabouts I guess.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Thankyou good sir

I’m in good company.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Acts that are clearly sanctionable - don’t disagree. My comment were based on what happens when it all becomes all about protecting the brand, based on a set of values that aren’t defined. That then becomes a moral judgement, which you’re not allowed to question.

Listen, I’m not here to fall out with anyone on this but there have been a number of cases where the

no one is guilty until they are caught and punished. That’s true but it’s the process of determining guilt that’s proved to be flawed / pointless and, we should all expect to be treated fairly. From the training ground investigation (settled out of court), to various decisions on sanctions, banning fans for actions/comments that weren’t punishable by law, ignoring the police & courts re. ending banning orders or the club not following their own procedures - that’s not ‘fair’, it’s just setting people up to fail and it’s a peculiar moral code to judge other and not reflect on your own failings (ie. Accepting doing something wrong or believing in basic forgiveness). Just makes the club look autocratic. And that’s not the society we live in. That’s what happened in the Post Office scandal, forget you’re dealing with people.

First of all my “no one is guilty” comment wasn’t clear. What I mean is that people always swear blind they’re not guilty, or have extenuating circumstances etc. This was almost always the case with away tickets but under investigation it shows they broke very clear rules.

You seem very fixated on actions which aren’t punishable by the law. As long as the club don’t break any laws of the land they, like any other business, can run their house how they see fit. You see this everywhere.

What have you, or a friend or family member, got into trouble for?

 

[Talby]

That doesn't take into account the fact the club is for arguments sake a 'Private Members Club' and to that end can pretty much do as it pleases.

Which isn’t right.

 

[Talby]

First of all my “no one is guilty” comment wasn’t clear. What I mean is that people always swear blind they’re not guilty, or have extenuating circumstances etc. This was almost always the case with away tickets but under investigation it shows they broke very clear rules.

You seem very fixated on actions which aren’t punishable by the law. As long as the club don’t break any laws of the land they, like any other business, can run their house how they see fit. You see this everywhere.

What have you, or a friend or family member, got into trouble for?

First of all my “no one is guilty” comment wasn’t clear. What I mean is that people always swear blind they’re not guilty, or have extenuating circumstances etc. This was almost always the case with away tickets but under investigation it shows they broke very clear rules.

You seem very fixated on actions which aren’t punishable by the law. As long as the club don’t break any laws of the land they, like any other business, can run their house how they see fit. You see this everywhere.

What have you, or a friend or family member, got into trouble for?

Running your house as you see fit…that’s carte Blanche to do as you want. Frankly that’s ludicrous.

 

[Talby]

You have very strong feelings about the club not behaving fairly and being autocratic for a ‘new’ member. I take it you or someone very close to you has been on the receiving end of a punishment meted out by the club; why not use your main account to have a pop?

Main account? Don’t have one/

As for the club behaving fairly. They get a lot right, when they don’t they’re abysmal.

Probably because the Club don’t appreciate anyone having a pop at their integrity.

 

[Stat Brother]

Which isn’t right.

You don't have to like it, none of us do, but it very much is right.

It's Mr Bloom's 'ball' he can do what he wants with it.

 

[dazzer6666]

I can imagine why, which is an example of what the club has become.

You could take it as the cost of success, but many successful clubs don't seem to follow the same route.

That said, other clubs don't sort things out such as making sure away games and season tickets aren't a closed shop.

Swings and roundabouts I guess.

Agreed. The club have to tread a fine line……….low tolerance for antisocial (but not necessarily illegal) behaviour and thinks like passing on tickets, with stated sanctions applied pretty abruptly if they think there’s sufficient evidence to ding someone for it. I don’t personally know anyone that’s been subject to any of these sanctions but I do know people that have been affected by twattish behaviour at games, home and away. Very difficult to strike a balance - been enough threads and comments on here from people complaining about other fan’s behaviour at games for example to balance those moaning about the club being too quick and draconian with their punishment when their rules are broken

 

[Goldstone1976]

Probably because the Club don’t appreciate anyone having a pop at their integrity.

Does anyone appreciate people having a pop at their integrity? Do you?

I’d be confident that whatever it is that you see as evidence that the club have treated you (or someone close to you) with a lack of integrity, the club would see very differently. It’s perfectly possible to disagree with actions taken by a third party without questioning their integrity - which is a deeply personal accusation.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Running your house as you see fit…that’s carte Blanche to do as you want. Frankly that’s ludicrous.

You seem to have ignored the preceding caveat i.e. within the laws of the land.

A lot of businesses have terms and conditions should you choose to engage with them. Next time you buy a gig ticket, book certain restaurants, use the gym have a look.

I’ll ask again, what did you (or a friend) do?

 

[Talby]

You seem to have ignored the preceding caveat i.e. within the laws of the land.

A lot of businesses have terms and conditions should you choose to engage with them. Next time you buy a gig ticket, book certain restaurants, use the gym have a look.

I’ll ask again, what did you (or a friend) do?

I know about the clubs t&cs and other documents. But they have one massive caveat thrown over them….anything that brings the club into disrepute/damages the reputation of the club. That’s well outside the law, that’s such a broad net in which to be caught as it’s a matter of opinion.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I know about the clubs t&cs and other documents. But they have one massive caveat thrown over them….anything that brings the club into disrepute/damages the reputation of the club. That’s well outside the law, that’s such a broad net in which to be caught as it’s a matter of opinion.

My interpretation of the club’s approach to T&C’s is:

1) don’t do anything we or legislation tell you not to do: ignoring instructions about ticketing or throwing objects onto the pitch would be examples of these two things.

2) don’t be an utter cock. This latter instruction is phrased as bringing the club into disrepute, simply because otherwise they’d have to have a near infinite list of minutely different examples; and they’d still not have captured one of the things that they’d want to sanction. Yes, of course this requires interpretation, but how else could it be done?

I see very few examples of the club getting these things horribly wrong. You clearly have seen at least one such example; what were the circumstances?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I know about the clubs t&cs and other documents. But they have one massive caveat thrown over them….anything that brings the club into disrepute/damages the reputation of the club. That’s well outside the law, that’s such a broad net in which to be caught as it’s a matter of opinion.

The club is entitled to protect its brand and those associated with the brand. That’s pretty much standard business practice isn’t it? I agree what constitutes bringing the club into disrepute, I amusingly recall the actual language is besmirch, is a matter of opinion but all the cases I have heard of have been fair in their assessment. Can you give an example where this isnt? Otherwise this is a somewhat pointless and theoretical discussion.

 

[dazzer6666]

I know about the clubs t&cs and other documents. But they have one massive caveat thrown over them….anything that brings the club into disrepute/damages the reputation of the club. That’s well outside the law, that’s such a broad net in which to be caught as it’s a matter of opinion.

It’s not remotely outside the law. Reputational risk is a key element of most business’ risk assessment- along with whatever measures deemed necessary to manage that risk - so the club have added (and strengthened with the scale of sanctions) the ‘besmirching’ part of their policy which allows them to do more or less what they want to maintain their reputation - and safety and comfort of others - providing they don’t cross any laws (discrimination for example). You accept that entirely when you buy a ticket. Banning people for behaviour the club deems unacceptable is completely within their remit.

 

[Stat Brother]

It’s not remotely outside the law. Reputational risk is a key element of most business’ risk assessment- along with whatever measures deemed necessary to manage that risk - so the club have added (and strengthened with the scale of sanctions) the ‘besmirching’ part of their policy which allows them to do more or less what they want to maintain their reputation - and safety and comfort of others - providing they don’t cross any laws (discrimination for example). You accept that entirely when you buy a ticket. Banning people for behaviour the club deems unacceptable is completely within their remit.

I genuinely don't understand why this has to be repeatedly explained to people.

 

[Talby]

You don't have to like it, none of us do, but it very much is right.

It's Mr Bloom's 'ball' he can do what he wants with it.

And that’s why a regulator is needed.

 

[Stat Brother]

And that’s why a regulator is needed.

A regulator isn't going to come to the rescue of fans acting like pillocks.

 

[Talby]

Does anyone appreciate people having a pop at their integrity? Do you?

I’d be confident that whatever it is that you see as evidence that the club have treated you (or someone close to you) with a lack of integrity, the club would see very differently. It’s perfectly possible to disagree with actions taken by a third party without questioning their integrity - which is a deeply personal accusation.

Integrity is sticking to your principles. But that also means sticking to your values, I don’t publish mine.I’ll admit when I’m wrong though.

 

[Seaview Seagull]

A regulator isn't going to come to the rescue of fans acting like pillocks.

A regulator wont be micro managing clubs like that. But it should be ensuring fans have the ability to be involved in major decisions about club ownership and broad policy. That's why the PL and it's clubs are trying hard to delay it's introduction and using the figleaf of a toothless FAB to say the regulator isn't needed. I have no complaints about our club but regulation is necessary for the future of our beautiful game in the wider world and no club should be fighting against it.