[Finance] The cryptocurrency (Bitcoin etc) thread

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The FTX story was all controlled by Blackrock.......create an archetype the Americans love (SBF), and rinse. You can see SBFs parents and links. Who is to gain from the FTX story? Blow up retails and mid level hedge funds, make crypto CEFI look bad, and then regulate DEFI and fiat entry. The FTX inside job is nothing to do with Crypto - it's another tale of fractional reserve banking. This is where my tip for AAVE comes.

You've disappeared WAY too far down the conspiracy rabbit hole. CZ blew up FTX via twitter, any fule kno that.

Nice headgear tho

 

[beorhthelm]

(arse, ignore, link wont work. )

 

[RowZ]

You've disappeared WAY too far down the conspiracy rabbit hole. CZ blew up FTX via twitter, any fule kno that.

Nice headgear tho

It was already blown up before that......the coindesk article alerted Cz....and he simply and transparently sold. Coindesk pointed out they were overleveraged into FTT........if you think this was all organic, and his ties to MIT / Government are coincidence - then I would say it's you with the conspiracy.

 

[chickens]

An article on crypto, suggesting there’s going to be a lot of disappointed individuals with overly well protected flash drives.

The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

www.coppolacomment.com

From an individual who generally seems to know what she’s talking about and was right on most points relating to 2008.

 

[beorhthelm]

An article on crypto, suggesting there’s going to be a lot of disappointed individuals with overly well protected flash drives.

The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

www.coppolacomment.com

From an individual who generally seems to know what she’s talking about and was right on most points relating to 2008.

some important details incorrect. first FTX aimed at all tiers of customers, offering platform for retail to institutional investors - it didnt get billions from retail alone. second, she's mixed FTX and FTX US, the former never made claims of insurance. whether crypto is a ponzi or not, the blow up of FTX committing basic fraud, doesnt really give a clear answer. for a writer following many crypto incidents, these are odd oversights.

 

[dsr-burnley]

A Ponzi scheme is one that pays interest to existing shareholders/members out of funds generated by the capital received from new shareholders/members. If the entity doesn't earn income but claims to pay dividends out of income, then it's a Ponzi.

Crypto doesn't generate income, so if it pays dividends, it's a Ponzi.

 

[beorhthelm]

A Ponzi scheme is one that pays interest to existing shareholders/members out of funds generated by the capital received from new shareholders/members. If the entity doesn't earn income but claims to pay dividends out of income, then it's a Ponzi.

Crypto doesn't generate income, so if it pays dividends, it's a Ponzi.

this doesnt describe crypto. they distribute tokens and the value is given by the market. they are not paying holders out of funds held, they dont pay cash dividends. where they do give dividend/interest like returns, its from actions on the application, in the project token. there are plenty of project with ponzinomics, often the label is used without understanding the mechanics involved.

 

[Knocky's Nose]

I freely admit I'm a bit late to the crypto space - even though I'd hovered around for a long time. I bought BTC and ICP on a recommendation from a friend, who had a friend who was a 'pro trader' who told her to buy... and I got burnt. There's your first lesson right there, which I learnt. Do your research before you enter the space.. Properly.

After hundreds of hours of research I concluded that Ripple were an extremely organised and professional company, openly inviting regulation and being completely transparent in all their dealings (even though no regulations made them). They've got a 'dream team' working for them, they have multiple patents on their technology, their technology is world leading and will transform payments, and they are building like mad behind the scenes. They were so far ahead of the game the corrupt SEC dropped a lawsuit on them in the hope of either destroying or hamstringing them so their own 'chosen' coins could succeed. It didn't work out that well for them thus far.

Ripple Labs and their Cryptocurrency XRP (and the XRP Ledger) WILL be a household name, Blockchain IS coming, CBDC's ARE coming, and thousands of useless shitcoins WILL disappear to create a clear space for utility cryptos.

Times are changing, and if you want to get in early buy now whilst everything is on it's arse. We are now at a time in crypto (the right ones, not garbage) like when Bitcoin was at $100, Amazon shares were a fiver, and Apple shares were $10. The whole financial system of the world is changing. Really. It is. Faeces will soon strike the spinning blades and scatter everywhere, starting in the USA and spreading outwards.

We had COVID where cash wasn't used. Shops are increasingly 'only taking card payments'. Banks are limiting the amount of cash you can withdraw. G4S are 'going on strike' and the media are citing a 'Christmas cash crisis' where banks and supermarkets won't have enough cash. Do you see a narrative here? Cash is going to be a thing of the past.

Not financial advice.

 

[CheeseRolls]

A Ponzi scheme is one that pays interest to existing shareholders/members out of funds generated by the capital received from new shareholders/members. If the entity doesn't earn income but claims to pay dividends out of income, then it's a Ponzi.

Crypto doesn't generate income, so if it pays dividends, it's a Ponzi.

There are plenty of revenue stream in crypto. The speculative element revolves around what that future income stream/network effect could look like.

 

[CheeseRolls]

An article on crypto, suggesting there’s going to be a lot of disappointed individuals with overly well protected flash drives.

The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

www.coppolacomment.com

From an individual who generally seems to know what she’s talking about and was right on most points relating to 2008.

@justin_bons recently wrote a scathing analysis of the top 20 ranked crypto currencies, which is well worth reading and I think a far more accurate critique of where we are right now.



He has an obvious bias against centralisation, which is often insightful, but not always relevant to others. The argument that the whole of crypto is a ponzi scheme strikes me as lazy and ill informed and seems to be the current US centric sentiment. There is tons of interesting stuff happening in Europe and Asia, that many of the US have no knowledge of or interest in. There are also some US based organisations, which are also making big progress in crypto, they are just hidden under a pile of rubbish and speculative nonsense, some of which does resemble ponzi schemes.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I freely admit I'm a bit late to the crypto space - even though I'd hovered around for a long time. I bought BTC and ICP on a recommendation from a friend, who had a friend who was a 'pro trader' who told her to buy... and I got burnt. There's your first lesson right there, which I learnt. Do your research before you enter the space.. Properly.

After hundreds of hours of research I concluded that Ripple were an extremely organised and professional company, openly inviting regulation and being completely transparent in all their dealings (even though no regulations made them). They've got a 'dream team' working for them, they have multiple patents on their technology, their technology is world leading and will transform payments, and they are building like mad behind the scenes. They were so far ahead of the game the corrupt SEC dropped a lawsuit on them in the hope of either destroying or hamstringing them so their own 'chosen' coins could succeed. It didn't work out that well for them thus far.

Ripple Labs and their Cryptocurrency XRP (and the XRP Ledger) WILL be a household name, Blockchain IS coming, CBDC's ARE coming, and thousands of useless shitcoins WILL disappear to create a clear space for utility cryptos.

Times are changing, and if you want to get in early buy now whilst everything is on it's arse. We are now at a time in crypto (the right ones, not garbage) like when Bitcoin was at $100, Amazon shares were a fiver, and Apple shares were $10. The whole financial system of the world is changing. Really. It is. Faeces will soon strike the spinning blades and scatter everywhere, starting in the USA and spreading outwards.

We had COVID where cash wasn't used. Shops are increasingly 'only taking card payments'. Banks are limiting the amount of cash you can withdraw. G4S are 'going on strike' and the media are citing a 'Christmas cash crisis' where banks and supermarkets won't have enough cash. Do you see a narrative here? Cash is going to be a thing of the past.

Not financial advice.

If only someone could invent a payment card that could be debited instead of having to carry physical cash around. Oh.

 

[beorhthelm]

@justin_bons recently wrote a scathing analysis of the top 20 ranked crypto currencies, which is well worth reading and I think a far more accurate critique of where we are right now.



He has an obvious bias against centralisation, which is often insightful, but not always relevant to others. The argument that the whole of crypto is a ponzi scheme strikes me as lazy and ill informed and seems to be the current US centric sentiment. There is tons of interesting stuff happening in Europe and Asia, that many of the US have no knowledge of or interest in. There are also some US based organisations, which are also making big progress in crypto, they are just hidden under a pile of rubbish and speculative nonsense, some of which does resemble ponzi schemes.

odd thread, he doesnt set out what the test or rules are.

 

[schmunk]

odd thread, he doesnt set out what the test or rules are.

The "Top 20" is simply by market cap. He then provides his personal opinions; I've no idea who he is or his credentials, and he even states in the thread ~ "don't just take my word for it, read around".

 

[CheeseRolls]

odd thread, he doesnt set out what the test or rules are.

It is Twitter and not a PHD thesis! In previous threads he has provided a more in depth critique of some key layer 1 chains and DAGS.

His doom scenario for Bitcoin is interesting, anyone holding Solana should really check out what he has to say around design and GOVERNANCE and his views that Layer 2s are the biggest risk to the long term success of etherium are worth noting.

 

[CheeseRolls]

The "Top 20" is simply by market cap. He then provides his personal opinions; I've no idea who he is or his credentials, and he even states in the thread ~ "don't just take my word for it, read around".

Twitter bio:

Founder & CIO of @CyberCapital Europe’s Oldest Cryptocurrency Fund, full-time crypto researcher since 2014. My words are my own & are not investment advice.

The Netherlands · cyber.capital

Not suggesting he is anything of a guru, but a useful example of someone with an informed opinion, who is both pro crypto and deeply cynical of the current market.

 

[beorhthelm]

It is Twitter and not a PHD thesis! In previous threads he has provided a more in depth critique of some key layer 1 chains and DAGS.

His doom scenario for Bitcoin is interesting, anyone holding Solana should really check out what he has to say around design and GOVERNANCE and his views that Layer 2s are the biggest risk to the long term success of etherium are worth noting.

sure, but he says something passes/doesnt pass without any mention what the test is. for anyone other than a regular follower, the comparisons have no context.

 

[sparkie]

I freely admit I'm a bit late to the crypto space - even though I'd hovered around for a long time. I bought BTC and ICP on a recommendation from a friend, who had a friend who was a 'pro trader' who told her to buy... and I got burnt. There's your first lesson right there, which I learnt. Do your research before you enter the space.. Properly.

After hundreds of hours of research I concluded that Ripple were an extremely organised and professional company, openly inviting regulation and being completely transparent in all their dealings (even though no regulations made them). They've got a 'dream team' working for them, they have multiple patents on their technology, their technology is world leading and will transform payments, and they are building like mad behind the scenes. They were so far ahead of the game the corrupt SEC dropped a lawsuit on them in the hope of either destroying or hamstringing them so their own 'chosen' coins could succeed. It didn't work out that well for them thus far.

Ripple Labs and their Cryptocurrency XRP (and the XRP Ledger) WILL be a household name, Blockchain IS coming, CBDC's ARE coming, and thousands of useless shitcoins WILL disappear to create a clear space for utility cryptos.

Times are changing, and if you want to get in early buy now whilst everything is on it's arse. We are now at a time in crypto (the right ones, not garbage) like when Bitcoin was at $100, Amazon shares were a fiver, and Apple shares were $10. The whole financial system of the world is changing. Really. It is. Faeces will soon strike the spinning blades and scatter everywhere, starting in the USA and spreading outwards.

We had COVID where cash wasn't used. Shops are increasingly 'only taking card payments'. Banks are limiting the amount of cash you can withdraw. G4S are 'going on strike' and the media are citing a 'Christmas cash crisis' where banks and supermarkets won't have enough cash. Do you see a narrative here? Cash is going to be a thing of the past.

Not financial advice.

So you are basically saying Cash isn't King ?

 

[chickens]

I have to say I’m amazed by how evangelical those who are “into” crypto sound. Each of them insisting that we “trust them” and how we’re all going to be terribly left behind if we don’t invest in Project X.

Of course, it’s always the other projects that are the Ponzi schemes, and when these evangelists speak of their chosen scheme, their words flow out like marketing.

I might feel like that if I were pinning my hopes of early retirement on a digital creation, backed by nothing, only transferable into recognised FIAT currencies at the whim of a completely unregulated exchange.

And those exchanges, they do keep seeming to go pop, don’t they?

 

[Knocky's Nose]

I have to say I’m amazed by how evangelical those who are “into” crypto sound. Each of them insisting that we “trust them” and how we’re all going to be terribly left behind if we don’t invest in Project X.

Of course, it’s always the other projects that are the Ponzi schemes, and when these evangelists speak of their chosen scheme, their words flow out like marketing.

Totally get where you're coming from on that, which is why you absolutely must do your own research. Trouble is, most people can't be arsed so they follow what someone else says - then they get burned. I did, but not badly (thankfully..) It was a good lesson.

All I can say is let common sense prevail. Does the crypto you're looking at have a real-world use which people (public, developers, banks, central banks, institutions etc) can use - aka 'utility'? Does it have a good team behind it with a proper and professional track record? Has it been around a long time? Is it recognised and approved by a standard or standards body? (ISO20022 for instance)?

Or... is it just a 'store of value' where people just speculate, shill, then FUD to pump and dump. These are the coins and tokens which will eventually disappear or just find themselves a shitty little dark corner of the internet to do their scams.

Your own money is your own money to do whatever you want with. The banks will merrily take it and give you 4.5% over 3 years, which after inflation this 'interest' will give you enough to buy a Starbucks once you can get your hands on it again - or you can look at a market which will be the future of money. Your call.

I think a lot of resentment of crypto and digital assets is borne of confusion and misunderstanding with a large dollop of the narrative the press push forward on top. Do the rich, who own the media, want you getting in early and making money when they can have the lions share for themselves? Have a guess at that.

NFA

 

[Knocky's Nose]

So you are basically saying Cash isn't King ?

It won't be.