Something needs to be done about Referees in this League

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Their "dodgy" penalty made up for the one not given to them in the first half. Due to lack of coherent information on the radio commentary did Perkins get booked for bringing down Calde in the box or did he get booked 10 minutes earlier when fouling Orlandi ?

 

[Acker79]

Their "dodgy" penalty made up for the one not given to them in the first half. Due to lack of coherent information on the radio commentary did Perkins get booked for bringing down Calde in the box or did he get booked 10 minutes earlier when fouling Orlandi ?

According to espnsoccernet, Perkins got booked in the 29th minute. I think that was the incident where he pushed Calderon over the advertising hoardings after the ball had gone out of play.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

According to espnsoccernet, Perkins got booked in the 29th minute. I think that was the incident where he pushed Calderon over the advertising hoardings after the ball had gone out of play.

Thanks , in that case why didn't the ref give Perkins a 2nd yellow card for conceding the penalty as he already issued one to El Abd ?

 

[Acker79]

Thanks , in that case why didn't the ref give Perkins a 2nd yellow card for conceding the penalty as he already issued one to El Abd ?

Probably because he didn't deem it a yellow card worthy foul (and it didn't deny a clear goal scoring opportunity) or an accidental foul, whereas El Abd's was yellow card worthy/a cynical foul, in his opinion.

 

[CHAPPERS]

According to espnsoccernet, Perkins got booked in the 29th minute. I think that was the incident where he pushed Calderon over the advertising hoardings after the ball had gone out of play.

Can you elaborate on this incident? He pushed Calde over the advertising hoardings on purpose?

 

[Acker79]

Can you elaborate on this incident? He pushed Calde over the advertising hoardings on purpose?

Nope. I can't. Sorry. I was listening on the radio, and I remember the mentioning it. Cantor was confused we didn't have a free kick and Aspinall pointed out the ball was out of play.

 

[dingodan]

Look at all our games this season. Look at all those games where our strikers have come away having missed multiple chances. Were they dropped after each game that occurred in? No. Kuszczak made an mistake v Birmingham costing us points, was he dropped? No. Upson needlessly conceded a freekick v Blackburn which led to the corner they scored from, was he dropped? No. Bruno conceded a penalty v Leeds costing us points, was he dropped? No. Was Greer dropped after his own goal v Burnley, when he conceded a penalty v palace, or when he screwed his shot over the crossbar v Charlton? No. Hammond barged a well placed Greer out of the way to head his shot over the bar v Derby, he left the post the momet a corner was taken leaving the space for blackburn to score, and played a terrible backpass that required a good save by kuszczak, was he dropped after those incidents? No. El Abd conceded a penalty v blackburn, lost his man for goals v arsenal and blackburn, was he dropped? No. Crofts conceded a penalty v Barnsley, was he dropped? No. Bridcutt lost the ball in midfield leading to a goal for Arsenal, was he dropped? No.

Players don't get dropped for a mistake, or the odd bad performance. They get dropped for tactical reasons, injuries, suspensions, tiredness, and a string of bad performances and bad training. We allow players to have off days before just dropping them.

You're missing the point. Too many off days, for too many ref's, is ruining this league imo. Players have an incentive to get things right, they value a place in the team and want to keep it. Where is the ref's incentive to get things right?

 

[Acker79]

You're missing the point. Too many off days, for too many ref's, is ruining this league imo. Players have an incentive to get things right, they value a place in the team and want to keep it. Where is the ref's incentive to get things right?

No, I'm not. We've already established we disagree on the number of poor performing referees we've had this season, but when did you see last night's ref before to gauge whether he has had a lot of off days? How many of our referees have you seen refereeing other games and having off days? I'd wager you don't often see more than one or two of their performances. If you only saw us play v Palace away and Watford at home you'd think we were relegation fodder. If you watched us v Bristol, Barnsley v us at the amex, Peterborough in many of their games where they got beat (4-1 v blackpool, 4-1 blackburn), huddersfield v Leicester or watford, you would think the quality of football in the championship is poor. Lots of teams having lots of off days.

But it comes back to this; referees haven't been that bad this season, and even if they have you can't judge every referee in our division just on the referees from our matches.

 

[dingodan]

No, I'm not. We've already established we disagree on the number of poor performing referees we've had this season, but when did you see last night's ref before to gauge whether he has had a lot of off days? How many of our referees have you seen refereeing other games and having off days? I'd wager you don't often see more than one or two of their performances. If you only saw us play v Palace away and Watford at home you'd think we were relegation fodder. If you watched us v Bristol, Barnsley v us at the amex, Peterborough in many of their games where they got beat (4-1 v blackpool, 4-1 blackburn), huddersfield v Leicester or watford, you would think the quality of football in the championship is poor. Lots of teams having lots of off days.

But it comes back to this; referees haven't been that bad this season, and even if they have you can't judge every referee in our division just on the referees from our matches.

You are right, maybe all of the awful refereeing performances we have seen this season were the only ones which were poor. Maybe we just got unlucky. Or maybe there is a problem with refereeing quality at this level. Who knows

 

[edna krabappel]

But it comes back to this; referees haven't been that bad this season, and even if they have you can't judge every referee in our division just on the referees from our matches.

Nailed it. We are where we are because we aren't clinical enough in front of goal.

Nothing to do with any referee.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Are we all missing the point that these lousy referees are still making incorrect decisions in other games in this division which affect other teams too ? Scoring goals has been our let down

 

[dingodan]

Nailed it. We are where we are because we aren't clinical enough in front of goal.

Nothing to do with any referee.

I'm not complaining about us being where we are. I'm complaining about having to go through the same shit every week, pulling my hair out when it comes to refs. You are confusing my annoyance at refereeing mistakes with me blaming them for our position. I am not.

 

[dingodan]

Are we all missing the point that these lousy referees are still making incorrect decisions in other games in this division which affect other teams too ? Scoring goals has been our let down

The fact that everyone suffers equally does not make it O.k.

 

[Medwayseagull]

What I find frustrating is the lack of transparency in dealing with referees who are not up to it. If players play poorly and get dropped it is in the public domain but the football authorities treatment of referees is clouded in secrecy unless it is high profile as in the Clatttenburg case. We all know they are assessed but does anyone know about the outcomes for the minority who do not meet the required standard. I know D'Urso lost his premier league status but is anyone aware of any other refs who have been sacked because someone actually concluded they were not good enough.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Nailed it. We are where we are because we aren't clinical enough in front of goal.

Nothing to do with any referee.

This is true, in fact I felt the referee's were a lot worse last season and we still couldn't score then.

 

[kevo]

Look at all our games this season. Look at all those games where our strikers have come away having missed multiple chances. Were they dropped after each game that occurred in? No. Kuszczak made an mistake v Birmingham costing us points, was he dropped? No. Upson needlessly conceded a freekick v Blackburn which led to the corner they scored from, was he dropped? No. Bruno conceded a penalty v Leeds costing us points, was he dropped? No. Was Greer dropped after his own goal v Burnley, when he conceded a penalty v palace, or when he screwed his shot over the crossbar v Charlton? No. Hammond barged a well placed Greer out of the way to head his shot over the bar v Derby, he left the post the momet a corner was taken leaving the space for blackburn to score, and played a terrible backpass that required a good save by kuszczak, was he dropped after those incidents? No. El Abd conceded a penalty v blackburn, lost his man for goals v arsenal and blackburn, was he dropped? No. Crofts conceded a penalty v Barnsley, was he dropped? No. Bridcutt lost the ball in midfield leading to a goal for Arsenal, was he dropped? No.

Players don't get dropped for a mistake, or the odd bad performance. They get dropped for tactical reasons, injuries, suspensions, tiredness, and a string of bad performances and bad training. We allow players to have off days before just dropping them.

Bizarre post. And your point is...?

The standard of refereeing is shocking and affects all teams. Officials should be made much more accountable. Yes, I know they have assessors - but why aren't their reports made public? And why can't referees be interviewed to explain their decisions?

 

[Acker79]

Bizarre post. And your point is...?

My point is that the idea that "players get dropped when they have a bad game so refs should too" is a false one. Players rarely get dropped for having a bad game. It takes a string of poor performances and poor training.

 

[Acker79]

What I find frustrating is the lack of transparency in dealing with referees who are not up to it. If players play poorly and get dropped it is in the public domain but the football authorities treatment of referees is clouded in secrecy unless it is high profile as in the Clatttenburg case. We all know they are assessed but does anyone know about the outcomes for the minority who do not meet the required standard. I know D'Urso lost his premier league status but is anyone aware of any other refs who have been sacked because someone actually concluded they were not good enough.

We know who is refereeing every game, it's made public before the games. If you want to, you can find out if a particular ref is not working that weekend. It's not like there is a glut of refs and they're all getting rotated.

Also, there are many times when players are officially dropped for tactical reasons, or squad rotation, but the suspicion is that it's actually punishment or some other reason (Rio being dropped from england for footballing reasons, for example), it's not always so transparent with football, at least no more so than with refs just being dropped without press releases letting everyone know.

 

[kevtherev]

If you want decisions to go your way in the long run. Standing on the sidelines, mockingly clapping decisions is not the way forward.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

The best Refs are those you don't notice during a game. Let the game flow, only intervene when necessary and then be firm and decisive when they do. They are human and will make the odd mistake.

I thought the Ref at Bolton wasn't too bad, not everything went our way but it evened out for both teams. I don't think he had much choice with the Barnes incident. I don't blame the Ref for that, Barnes just lost his head rather than focus on getting us an equaliser.

Sadly there are one or two other Refs who seem to relish being in the spotlight, yet make bad match changing decisions. Simon Hooper at Hillsborough comes to mind, he seemed to delight in every opportunity to grab centre stage, yet missed all sorts of crude gamesmanship from Sheff Weds, far more blatant than Bolton. Sadly it was Ashley Barnes who got suckered into reacting badly to another unpunished foul and sure enough Hooper delighted in producing a red card. Fair enough Barnes deserved it (especially stupid thinking he would get away with it right in front of Hooper) but from the start Weds set out to put us off our game and kick us all around the pitch. The spat between Jones and Oatway was a direct result of the Barnes incident. All down to weak Refereeing. Ruined the game.

On the other hand I do have some sympathy for Refs who have to deal with a lot of gamesmanship in the Championship. Too many players act like they've been shot by a sniper when they get fouled. Albion players have been guilty of it. Barnsley to their credit are about the only team for a while who didn't resort to that. Ok if its a genuine injury but play acting must plant doubts in Refs minds when real fouls happen later. Plus if the Ref and officals have Poyet giving them ear-ache all game long then its understandable if they will not be too sympathetic. In an ideal world Refs should treat every foul objectively and not be influenced by play acting or be intimidated by managers.

Finally while on the subject I find it amazing that Ulloa (to his credit) seems to shrug off most of the physical batterings that he receives. He doesn't go in for play acting (just a bit of mild gesticulating) and I haven't noticed any spitefulness from the Argie either (he seems almost too 'nice' for a latin american?). The contrast between Kevin Davies (a master of the professional foul) and Leo was so obvious. I hope some decent Refs will note this so that when Leo does go down, it is genuine.