Roof work - how much?

[hitony]

The man to use, and also ask is [MENTION=1804]sams dad[/MENTION] on here, I appreciate he is to far away for you Bozza, but for Sussex based people, he is without a doubt the best professional builder about, read all the reviews he has had on here alone!!

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

I'm not sure where we stand with it as, technically, we agreed the price.

However, that was done believing it was a fair few solid days work.

I'm struggling to see how it won't take quite some creativity to get to that figure though on an itemised bill.

Did he give you an estimate or a quotation?

Generally, an estimate is a best guess based on experience and expertise. Where a contractor provides an estimate and a customer accepts it there is no obligation on the contractor to do the work or to limit the amount charged to the estimate. With an estimate the customer is obliged to pay a "reasonable sum", which may be higher or lower than the figure in the estimate itself. The only challenges the customer can then raise are as to how the amount was calculated, the amount of work done and/or that the contractor was negligent in their advice on the likely cost.

A quotation is a fixed price offer. Once it is accepted the price cannot be changed save in accordance with the quote (for example if there is a clause allowing variance if the cost of materials changes) or the customer seeks to vary the contract (if the work to be done changes the contractor is entitled to change the amount they charge).

Hope this helps

 

[Weststander]

Bozza. Those pics surprise me.

I pictured you living in a £2m Georgian house in the Clifton area of Bristol.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Regarding his hours don't forget he'll charge for travelling time collecting materials etc.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

When we had a leak in the roof I'm sure they charged us about £200 for a days work (but I can't find the invoice) which involved replacing tiles, fixing a collar round a gas vent, repointing etc.

New guttering and facias, soffits, bargeboards etc cost us about £2k for the whole house

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Bozza. Those pics surprise me.

I pictured you living in a £2m Georgian house in the Clifton area of Bristol.

Them's the servants quarters guv...

 

[LamieRobertson]

I take it you will be paying by cheque on receipt of an invoice....re bill 2k? me thinks bit steep..its not as though materials would cost him much and with the extra work at least he was on site already ...is he VAT registered? That would account for some i guess.

 

[Bozza]

I'm currently at a loss as to what to do.

I am, presumably, going to be presented with a piece of paper that attempts to justify...

- Time spent which is, thus far, 5 hours (tops) Tuesday + 5 hours (tops) Wednesday + 2 hours today + an hour or two tomorrow.
- Materials

...summing to £1950.

He represented it as being a good 5 days work. As it is, he'd have spent roughly 2 days work spread over 4 days. I can't believe materials are even £200.

He's clearly sought to take advantage.

 

[Bozza]

I take it you will be paying by cheque on receipt of an invoice....re bill 2k? me thinks bit steep..its not as though materials would cost him much and with the extra work at least he was on site already ...is he VAT registered? That would account for some i guess.

Cheque and a call to HMRC to make sure record of it makes it's way to them.

I'm doubting VAT is going to be on the bill.

 

[EDS]

Cheque and a call to HMRC to make sure record of it makes it's way to them.

I'm doubting VAT is going to be on the bill.

Thats why I said you need a VAT receipt that displays his VAT number. Then PM it to me and I will tell you if it is genuine or not, saying that anyone can check though. Do not pay it all immediately, also you can always dispute the bill as his quotation was based on five days at £175

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Cheque and a call to HMRC to make sure record of it makes it's way to them.

I'm doubting VAT is going to be on the bill.

Thats why I said you need a VAT receipt that displays his VAT number. Then PM it to me and I will tell you if it is genuine or not, saying that anyone can check though. Do not pay it all immediately, also you can always dispute the bill as his quotation was based on five days at £175

 

[hitony]

You have every right to dispute the bill he presents you, and so you should if you feel you are basically being conned / ripped off.

You have every right for a complete breakdown of his bill, insist on an itemised complete breakdown of all labour and materials used ( i do agree with the added 10 to 15% added on for collection of materials etc) if the contractor tries saying he as worked say 8 hours a day and you know / feel this is not the case, dispute it, ask to see copys of the bill for the materials used. If he has had his wife there, he must justify her cost's if he has added her time onto the final bill.

Whatever you do, DO NOT pass over all the money that he is asking for if you are not satisfied, the only bargaining power you have is while he is still owed money, once he has said money you have nothing. personally I would give him £500.00 on account (thats if the sum being spoken about is circa £2000.00) until he has given you a satisfactory complete itemised bill.

I might add I have been in the building game all my life, and looking from a distance and what I have read on this thread, for the works required, he is a "Rip off merchant" otherwise known as a "Rogue Trader"!!

Unless a contract has been drawn up, you are under no obligation to pay straight away, certainly not all the monies anyway, what if his works have not solved the original problem? I very much doubt he will come back and do any remedial works at his own cost, has he water tested his work? I doubt it, though the elements may have already done that for him!! but he should still water test his workmanship, any remedial works I have ever been involved in I have always water tested the works with the customer being present, that way if there ever was a future problem, I always have that on my side.

I am interested to know how you came by engaging the services of this person? as other/s have said, a known friend recomendation is always the best way forward.

Good luck.

 

[Grizz]

Dunno if its of any help, but we had an entire roof done, front and back and a smaller roof over the rear of the house for £6500. That meant replacing all tiles, flashing, underlay and repointing 2 chimneys on a 3 bed terrace house.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

I'm currently at a loss as to what to do.

I am, presumably, going to be presented with a piece of paper that attempts to justify...

- Time spent which is, thus far, 5 hours (tops) Tuesday + 5 hours (tops) Wednesday + 2 hours today + an hour or two tomorrow.
- Materials

...summing to £1950.

He represented it as being a good 5 days work. As it is, he'd have spent roughly 2 days work spread over 4 days. I can't believe materials are even £200.

He's clearly sought to take advantage.

Break it down, a maximum of 20/25 hours work for one man at a very over generous rate of £25/hour gives a total of £500/£625 for labour
Materials: Only you and the builder know this.
I would imagine from what you have described, he has supplied new lead flashing, a 6 metre roll of code 4 would cost maybe £80.
Allow £30 for sand and cement and a maximum of £40 for new tiles if required.
Allow £200 maximum for replacing timber rafter ends and tha should be about it .
So approx £350 plus vat on materials, total £420, labour maximum £625 at highest rate, total £1045 plus vat if he is registered £209, grand total £1250/1400 maximum
Ask to see an itemised invoice, vat registration number and a written guarentee.
If all forthcoming, pay him 75% and tell him you will pay the balence within 30 days when it has had a good weather test.

If he argues, tell him you are going to Trading Standards

 

[5mins-from-amex]

He seems to have finished at the front.

I don't have a 'before' photo, but I don't believe we had some of the board sticking out like this before. It's been cemented on the top. Surely if left like this the board will just get wet quickly and rot?

Bozza, i am a roofer and that 'gable' should NOT look like that! You never run morter (pug) straight onto wood because not only will it rot like you say, but it will also absorb water and swell! and in the winter the water in the wood will freeze and expand, which will in turn crack the cement!

This is a gable that i did resently, if you look you will see that up the gable there is what we call a 'undercloak' it is this that the morter should always be bedded on!


And when its finished it should look like this.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Break it down, a maximum of 20/25 hours work for one man at a very over generous rate of £25/hour gives a total of £500/£625 for labour
Materials: Only you and the builder know this.
I would imagine from what you have described, he has supplied new lead flashing, a 6 metre roll of code 4 would cost maybe £80.
Allow £30 for sand and cement and a maximum of £40 for new tiles if required.
Allow £200 maximum for replacing timber rafter ends and tha should be about it .
So approx £350 plus vat on materials, total £420, labour maximum £625 at highest rate, total £1045 plus vat if he is registered £209, grand total £1250/1400 maximum
Ask to see an itemised invoice, vat registration number and a written guarentee.
If all forthcoming, pay him 75% and tell him you will pay the balence within 30 days when it has had a good weather test.

If he argues, tell him you are going to Trading Standards

Interesting that you say £25 is a 'very over generous rate' .....given some of the work they have to do seems an okay one to me...but what you do want is transparency over pricing and the work done properly......price wise its probably going to be too late ..but as another 'roofer' has posted it doesnt seem bozza is getting value for his money..arguing his case from someone who desont know much though is a tad difficult..one worth doing though for 2k worth of dough

 

[5mins-from-amex]

Every job that i price has a complete breakdown of costs, materials, labour, and tea. The client always knows what the total cost will be before we start.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Every job that i price has a complete breakdown of costs, materials, labour, and tea. The client always knows what the total cost will be before we start.

By the sounds of it its a pity you arent 5 mins from Bozza

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Interesting that you say £25 is a 'very over generous rate' .....given some of the work they have to do seems an okay one to me...but what you do want is transparency over pricing and the work done properly......price wise its probably going to be too late ..but as another 'roofer' has posted it doesnt seem bozza is getting value for his money..arguing his case from someone who desont know much though is a tad difficult..one worth doing though for 2k worth of dough

Ive been in the building trade 40 years, and with the current economic/work situation, I would suggest any self employed tradesman who is charging £25/hour is ripping people off.
How many builders at the moment are on £250 per day.
I could understand a company charging that, but from the sound of Bozzas case, he has got a man in a van builder.

 

[hitony]

Every job that i price has a complete breakdown of costs, materials, labour, and tea. The client always knows what the total cost will be before we start.

Correct! as with any professional builder, that knows what he is doing, he will be able to price for all the works involved, I agree in some cases there maybe a hidden issue, but in all cases a contingency sum would be put into the price for any "If we discover this is wrong this is what it will cost on top" in most cases (and certainly this one!) it is a very basic and straight forward issue.

 

[5mins-from-amex]

Ive been in the building trade 40 years, and with the current economic/work situation, I would suggest any self employed tradesman who is charging £25/hour is ripping people off.
How many builders at the moment are on £250 per day.
I could understand a company charging that, but from the sound of Bozzas case, he has got a man in a van builder.

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Ive been in the building trade 40 years, and with the current economic/work situation, I would suggest any self employed tradesman who is charging £25/hour is ripping people off.
How many builders at the moment are on £250 per day.
I could understand a company charging that, but from the sound of Bozzas case, he has got a man in a van builder.

But what builders do you know that work 10 hours a day? i dont charge by the hour but if i did £25 per hour sounds about right to me.