Roof work - how much?

[hitony]

Ive been in the building trade 40 years, and with the current economic/work situation, I would suggest any self employed tradesman who is charging £25/hour is ripping people off.
How many builders at the moment are on £250 per day.
I could understand a company charging that, but from the sound of Bozzas case, he has got a man in a van builder.

I agree, all the "Jobbing builders" I know are lucky (and happy with it!) if they can get around £100 to £125 a day (labour only)

 

[Bozza]

How we got to this position, is thus...

The house is on the market. Like most people in our position there are a few 'foibles' with the house that you'd rather prospective purchasers didn't know about but, as you do not have a long term future in the property, you do not want to spend the money to fix. These small leaks were 2 such things.

However, they have got progressively worse and it reached the stage that if any viewings happened when it was raining, or had recently been raining, we'd have been rumbled so we made the decision to get it sorted.

We tried with a reputable company but they kept cancelling the appointment to come and quote and, with the property market here starting to pick up, we wanted the work done ASAP. A flier in the local paper caught our eye, made the call and the guy came round. He could do the work immediately (I know, I know, probably not the best sign) so we went for it. The initial quote may have been 'toppy' but we were getting the work done quickly and would have confidence in viewings taking place in poor weather. It's the subsequent work that seems outrageously expensive now and given how little time he's been working, I do wonder how many roof joists he has cut and repaired. After he left yesterday I went up his ladder to take a look but with all the tiles and fascia back in place, I was unable to see. I'm going to ask on this point specifically.

 

[LamieRobertson]

But what builders do you know that work 10 hours a day? i dont charge by the hour but if i did £25 per hour sounds about right to me.

Well thats what i think, as we arent talking about site work....but as can be seem he doesn't seem to have got a proper roofer

 

[hitony]

I know a fully qualified sparky who I have worked with for well over 25 years, at the height of the non recession days (about 5+ years ago and back) he was charging £50 an hour, nowadays he is happy with £25 to £30!

In many cases (certainly within the building industry) many prices have changed, in the good old days when everyone was cash rich it was more or less a case of charge what you can get, nowadays there is plenty of choice and many people looking for the work so prices have become a lot lore competitive.

Sadly this recession has also created many more "Cowboy builders" as people are trying to turn there DIY skills into a way of making a living!

 

[5mins-from-amex]

I agree, all the "Jobbing builders" I know are lucky (and happy with it!) if they can get around £100 to £125 a day (labour only)

And there is the problem, 'jobbing builders' or jack of all trades should not be doing any roofing work! Believe it when i say that roofing can get quite involved at times and you need to know what you are doing.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

I'm going on Bozza's senario. His total hours over the week amount to no more than 25.
Bozza should have determined what his hourly rate is or at least a day work rate, of which 8 hours would amount toadays labour.
Surely he gave an estimate of cost or how many hours the work would take.

 

[hitony]

How we got to this position, is thus...

The house is on the market. Like most people in our position there are a few 'foibles' with the house that you'd rather prospective purchasers didn't know about but, as you do not have a long term future in the property, you do not want to spend the money to fix. These small leaks were 2 such things.

However, they have got progressively worse and it reached the stage that if any viewings happened when it was raining, or had recently been raining, we'd have been rumbled so we made the decision to get it sorted.

We tried with a reputable company but they kept cancelling the appointment to come and quote and, with the property market here starting to pick up, we wanted the work done ASAP. A flier in the local paper caught our eye, made the call and the guy came round. He could do the work immediately (I know, I know, probably not the best sign) so we went for it. The initial quote may have been 'toppy' but we were getting the work done quickly and would have confidence in viewings taking place in poor weather. It's the subsequent work that seems outrageously expensive now and given how little time he's been working, I do wonder how many roof joists he has cut and repaired. After he left yesterday I went up his ladder to take a look but with all the tiles and fascia back in place, I was unable to see. I'm going to ask on this point specifically.

Tiles are removeable, if you dont trust what he tells you, ask him to remove a few and show you what he has done, I don't consider that to be unreasonable.

 

[Bozza]

I'm going on Bozza's senario. His total hours over the week amount to no more than 25.
Bozza should have determined what his hourly rate is or at least a day work rate, of which 8 hours would amount toadays labour.
Surely he gave an estimate of cost or how many hours the work would take.

2 days for the original work, 3 days for the subsequent bit. He tried to bullshit me yesterday saying he doesn't work like other people and he just has a plan what he'll get done each day. He said his daily rate is £150-175.

I'm not paying someone £150 for 2 hours work.

 

[hitony]

And there is the problem, 'jobbing builders' or jack of all trades should not be doing any roofing work! Believe it when i say that roofing can get quite involved at times and you need to know what you are doing.

I fully appreciate and completely understand what you are saying, people I am talking about I would happily recomend as they are very much tried and tested in there given fields, and having been a senior site manager for more years than i care to remember I am fully conversant with what work is entailed in most cases.

I am also fully conversant with the NHBC regulations and Building regs and standards, as I am sure many people are on here.

I have worked with some very good roofers (as I am sure you are) and some not so good, in fact some that didnt last much past the first hour on site!!

 

[5mins-from-amex]

At the end of the day the customer is always right (even when they are wrong) that is the way it is.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I fully appreciate and completely understand what you are saying, people I am talking about I would happily recomend as they are very much tried and tested in there given fields, and having been a senior site manager for more years than i care to remember I am fully conversant with what work is entailed in most cases.

I am also fully conversant with the NHBC regulations and Building regs and standards, as I am sure many people are on here.

I have worked with some very good roofers (as I am sure you are) and some not so good, in fact some that didnt last much past the first hour on site!!

And the guy who is working site is not going to get as much as someone who runs a small business of say 2/3 people...what you want is the job done properly for a fair price and that 'rate' is going to be higher then just hiring a site roofer who might do something privately in his spare time

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

2 days for the original work, 3 days for the subsequent bit. He tried to bullshit me yesterday saying he doesn't work like other people and he just has a plan what he'll get done each day. He said his daily rate is £150-175.

I'm not paying someone £150 for 2 hours work.

Exactly.
I would dispute his bill. Tell him you dont mind paying £175 per day, but you would expect a mimimum of 7 hours work for that
So based on that rate, 20 total hours @ £25/hour = £500 plus materials.

 

[5mins-from-amex]

And the guy who is working site is not going to get as much as someone who runs a small business of say 2/3 people...what you want is the job done properly for a fair price and that 'rate' is going to be higher then just hiring a site roofer who might do something privately in his spare time

I have not done any form of site work for at least 5 years now, and you are right the money is crap because you are normaly sub contracted by a large roofing company who take a large cut of labour rates.

 

[5mins-from-amex]

Exactly.
I would dispute his bill. Tell him you dont mind paying £175 per day, but you would expect a mimimum of 7 hours work for that
So based on that rate, 20 total hours @ £25/hour = £500 plus materials.

That would be the right way to break it down.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

I have not done any form of site work for at least 5 years now, and you are right the money is crap because you are normaly sub contracted by a large roofing company who take a large cut of labour rates.

So you are a self empoyed roofer.
Not being nosey, but on average, what do you charge per hour/day and how many hours do you put in for that?

Not trying to argue a point, I just feel that the bloke is shafting Bozza

 

[5mins-from-amex]

Depends on the distance i have to travel, but anywhere from £150/200, but me and the people who work with me have to work hard for that money, i have worked as far as swindon and after diesel and tax i was not making much profit!

 

[Bozza]

I'm at work today but stop the clock: 10:57 and he's arrived at my house for the day.

Well, I say 'day'....

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Depends on the distance i have to travel, but anywhere from £150/200, but me and the people who work with me have to work hard for that money, i have worked as far as swindon and after diesel and tax i was not making much profit!

Fair enough, I'm a self employed window and conservatory surveyor, and work anywhere between M3/ M25 /South East corner, so yes fuel and travelling costs have to be
taken into account.
But in Bozza's case, it sounds like a local bloke, advertising in the local paper, so travelling costs would be minimal.

 

[Bozza]

Fair enough, I'm a self employed window and conservatory surveyor, and work anywhere between M3/ M25 /South East corner, so yes fuel and travelling costs have to be
taken into account.
But in Bozza's case, it sounds like a local bloke, advertising in the local paper, so travelling costs would be minimal.

No more than 10 miles / 15-20 mins.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Has he started tea break yet?