Roadmap out of Lockdown - Feb 22nd

[Green Cross Code Man]

The Volley here in Lyme I would describe as Covid secure, when we went over last summer they were excellent. All customer facing staff had enhanced grade face masks, face visors and gloves on. It was table service only, you had to wear your mask unless you were eating or drinking and there was 2m space between tables, plus all windows and doors were open to allow for proper ventilation. Me and Mrs Crodo felt very safe.

The situation you describe is excellent. However, primary schools are never going to be 'covid secure'. By virtue of the way young humans interact, social distancing is impossible and in any case so many classrooms in modern schools are tiny with children and often several adults crammed in. This would obviously apply to a lesser extent in secondary schools where children are starting to take more notice of personal space.

 

[crodonilson]

The situation you describe is excellent. However, primary schools are never going to be 'covid secure'. By virtue of the way young humans interact, social distancing is impossible and in any case so many classrooms in modern schools are tiny with children and often several adults crammed in. This would obviously apply to a lesser extent in secondary schools where children are starting to take more notice of personal space.

Most of the research is that primary age children are not great carriers of the disease anyway, so I think they can open with less expectation of social distancing but can still reguarly wash hands and stay in classroom bubbles so that if there is a known case only that class should have to isolate. Plus enhanced weekly cleans and cleaning stations provided around the school can make it as secure as we can. It may be that to increase social distancing in secondary schools they should return on a part time basis to begin with and with regular testing.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Most of the research is that primary age children are not great carriers of the disease anyway, so I think they can open with less expectation of social distancing but can still reguarly wash hands and stay in classroom bubbles so that if there is a known case only that class should have to isolate. Plus enhanced weekly cleans and cleaning stations provided around the school can make it as secure as we can. It may be that to increase social distancing in secondary schools they should return on a part time basis to begin with and with regular testing.

On the surface I agree. I certainly want the kids back asap. However, we have had several bubbles shut over the last few weeks with a number of children passing the virus on. My main concern is not the children though but the number of adults who work very closely together. Thank God the thing is on the retreat at the moment though.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Is this a monstrous Grauniad typo or did BJ actually say this? "UK Covid live: plan to ease lockdown will aim to be 'cautious but irreversible', says Boris Johnson"? He meant REVERSIBLE shirley?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...coronavirus-vaccine-rollout-begins-in-england

 

[RossyG]

BBC news are also quoting him as saying irreversible.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56068362

 

[sparkie]

Is this a monstrous Grauniad typo or did BJ actually say this? "UK Covid live: plan to ease lockdown will aim to be 'cautious but irreversible', says Boris Johnson"? He meant REVERSIBLE shirley?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...coronavirus-vaccine-rollout-begins-in-england

No he meant irreversible.

Unless they u-turn the policy of course.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

No he meant irreversible.

Unless they u-turn the policy of course.

That'll be by the weekend then

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Is this a monstrous Grauniad typo or did BJ actually say this? "UK Covid live: plan to ease lockdown will aim to be 'cautious but irreversible', says Boris Johnson"? He meant REVERSIBLE shirley?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...coronavirus-vaccine-rollout-begins-in-england

Seems a few countries have this view, states seem to have anyway.

Looks like they really did March and it was over.

 

[crodonilson]

Any easing of lockdown must be reversible ifthedacts then demonstrate that the easing measures have had the effect of increasing R above 1 and cases rising again. Not like Boris to misquote though is it.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Any easing of lockdown must be reversible ifthedacts then demonstrate that the easing measures have had the effect of increasing R above 1 and cases rising again. Not like Boris to misquote though is it.

No, if no one is dying and hospitals not being overwhelmed we don't

 

[crodonilson]

No, if no one is dying and hospitals not being overwhelmed we don't

We can't take that chance, the hospitalisations and deaths lag quite a way behind the actual cases. If any unlocking leads to a spike in cases we need to be able to swiftly and decisively close that method of transmission down, driven by actual data. In this wave particularly more so than others many of the hospitalisations have been in under 50's, they may not die but they put severe strain on the NHS which is still going to be looking after many thousands of patients for months to come.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

We can't take that chance, the hospitalisations and deaths lag quite a way behind the actual cases. If any unlocking leads to a spike in cases we need to be able to swiftly and decisively close that method of transmission down, driven by actual data. In this wave particularly more so than others many of the hospitalisations have been in under 50's, they may not die but they put severe strain on the NHS which is still going to be looking after many thousands of patients for months to come.

We either trust the vaccine or we don’t.

 

[RossyG]

No, if no one is dying and hospitals not being overwhelmed we don't

Exactly! If they vulnerable have been vaccinated then the R number for Covid becomes as meaningless as the one for colds.

My two nephews, aged 20 and 22, had Covid late last year. It was a couple of days of feeling a bit crap and then they were fine. If a bunch of scientists drunk on power think they can use this to shut everything down again then they can **** right off.

 

[beorhthelm]

Any easing of lockdown must be reversible ifthedacts then demonstrate that the easing measures have had the effect of increasing R above 1 and cases rising again. Not like Boris to misquote though is it.

the R number is not the be and end all, its a fairly crass measure. chicken pox has basic R number of 10 yet we dont worry about it much do we? lets assume the "irreversible" is the guiding intent of the plan, being cautiuous and measured so we dont need to reinstate stricter restictions again.

 

[e77]

I kind of get where this irreversible loosening of lockdown means. Unlike the last couple of times we have this rolling wave of people being vaccinated so unless a new strain wrong foots all of us they should be loosening restrictions in a careful and statistics based way but when the restrictions are gone they should stay gone.

We can't keep going backwards and forwards.

 

[crodonilson]

The Guardian has quoted Whitehall sources as saying under the most optimistic scenario hospitality will be able to open, outdoors only from late April but a more pesimmistic scenario may not see hospitality open until August.

 

[dsr-burnley]

The Guardian has quoted Whitehall sources as saying under the most optimistic scenario hospitality will be able to open, outdoors only from late April but a more pesimmistic scenario may not see hospitality open until August.

There is no way on earth that a scenario where telling people they may be able to have a meal out in three months' time but only if it's a nice day, can be described as optimistic. It's miserably pessimistic. And once we're immune and the numbers suffering and dying are negligible, the idea that we should waste the summer hiding away "just in case" is not pessimistic, it's sadistic. It's an evil thought and those "Whitehall sources" need to lock themselves in prison for the rest of their lives to see if they change their minds.

What do I tell an 88 year old suffering with depression? That the government thinks it's better that you should die of depression at home than that you should go out and take the risk of catching a disease that you are immune to? Here's news for the government. A vaccinated pensioner who goes out this summer may indeed have a 1 in 1,000 chance of dying of coronavirus. Well, unless and until they reduce her chances of dying in the next year to less than 1 in 1,000, those are good odds. We will take them.

 

[The Clamp]

The quickest and safest way to get back to normal is once we have reached 75% vaccination in all criteria groups, to only allow access to transport, venues, restaurants, gyms, supermarkets etc to those that have been vaccinated.

The idiot anti vaccers can sit at home thinking about how retarded they are while the normal people get on with our lives in relative safety.

 

[atomised]

The Guardian has quoted Whitehall sources as saying under the most optimistic scenario hospitality will be able to open, outdoors only from late April but a more pesimmistic scenario may not see hospitality open until August.

May as well shutter the lot.permanently under the pessimistic outlook. Ultimately there appears to be confidence that 32 million will have had first doses by the end of April with 15 million of those having had both. Under that scenario keeping hospitality shut in any way would be a poor show but until August would be ridiculous

 

[LamieRobertson]

The quickest and safest way to get back to normal is once we have reached 75% vaccination in all criteria groups, to only allow access to transport, venues, restaurants, gyms, supermarkets etc to those that have been vaccinated.

The idiot anti vaccers can sit at home thinking about how retarded they are while the normal people get on with our lives in relative safety.

What happens to the 25% or are you suggesting that 25% are anti vac..if so where does that figure come from?
Also where does that leave the people who can’t take a vaccine for say medical reasons