"Palace think big..." - Evening Standard - When will Brighton?

[Working class pride]

You seem to be obsessed with linking Palace and Brighton.

You're also a mad a a box of squirrels.

See edited post, I explained. Dont call names if you dont agree, but maybe answer with why you disagree with the article in the Standard and how that also applies to Brighton? I think that article is very interesting. If we snooze, we will lose.

 

[Fungus]

If you ever read my posts you will know I make that very same point many, many times.

Yes, I only come on NSC to see if you've started another thread on the same point.

 

[Mutts Nuts]

From the Standard tonight:-
"..the clubs board were discussing how they could become one of the Premier Leagues high rollers...Stoke has a much smaller catchment area than Palace and has a smaller potential ... We are the biggest club in South Londonand within an hour of Selhurst there are more than 5 million people...the only reason we have not fulfilled it is because we have always gone straight back down again.. the club have already sold 15000 of the 17000 season tickets, almost double the 8,000 season ticket holders at Selhurst Park in the Championship"

Interesting comments and my thoughts are:-

1. Palace are a club who had 8000 season ticket holders in the championship. Brighton & Hove Albion have circa 23,000/24,000, this three times palace when in the same division, but their board are correct, Palace do have a good catchment area, although historically they are not the biggest club in South London (Charlton have in their history regular gates of 70,000).
2. For those on NSC who still dont get the link between catchment areas, attendances and potential and therefore still don't agree that Brighton have under achieved, well the Evening Standard, the board at Palace and most followers of football (I would suggest) do understand that link.
3. Palace's catchment area is not as defined as the Albion's and we are so lucky to have a County identity. This is why I and many others with Albion in the family going back generations knew full well the potential of the club. The question I have is when will the some questions that are being asked by the board at Selhurst be asked at Brighton? Or have they been and are some fans just lagging behind a bit?
4. What will stop Brighton moving forward? Failing to gain promotion and transport that will stop the ground from being expanded.

I hope you`re wearing full PPE inluding hard hat

 

[Commander]

Not really thinking big to return the club to the same size support it had in the 1970's and build a ground that would have been too small to hold the crowd that Brighton had for Darlington in the 3rd division. Its think average, not thinking big.

Ah yes, this mythical 30,000 that packed the Goldstone out week in, week out. It happened what, 6 times in 100 years?

The Albion is a far bigger club now than it ever was in the 70's or 80's. We used to get an average of 14,000 in the top division!

 

[Hamilton]

See edited post, I explained. Dont call names if you dont agree, but maybe answer with why you disagree with the article in the Standard and how that also applies to Brighton? I think that article is very interesting. If we snooze, we will lose.

I have no interest in Palace.

I disagree that Brighton are under-achieving.

Palace are most definitely under-achieving. They haven't been homeless, played home games in Kent or been restricted to an 8 - 7,000 capacity ground for a decade. Compared to them, the Albion are Bayern Munich.

 

[seagull_in_malaysia]

What is Brighton's average attendance since, say, 1950? I would bet it is lower than what it was this past season. WCP, you seem to hark on about Brighton getting 30,000 for Darlington or whatever quite a lot but I take it that game was probably an anomaly in the grand scheme of things.

Brighton may have a large number of season ticket holders at the moment, and no doubt the club wants to capitalise on that and get to the BPL before that number dwindles away, but I wouldn't say a few years of having lots of STHs means suddenly Brighton has underachieved for its whole history.

How many of our current STHs do you reckon support another team and are only at the Amex now because it's the new "in thing"? Who is to say they will still be around in 10 years time if we are not in the premier league? Of course we will always be close to capacity if we do go up but I wouldn't bet on that necessarily being the case when we came back down. Talk of expansion, and a lack of ambition otherwise, is deluded IMO.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I understand that, and its a point I have made to palace fans and only had angry replies back. However we are where we are and its right to say that they are not looking to stand still.

I can't see Brighton standing still either.

 

[Working class pride]

The Albion is a far bigger club now than it ever was in the 70's or 80's. We used to get an average of 14,000 in the top division![/QUOTE]

Ah this old chestnut, for one season under Bailey, when Arsenal would get 18000. No the Goldstone wasnt packed every week but it was getting gates for its division greater than those in that division, for many many seasons. It also was host to BHA who in the 70's and early 80's had the 11th best support in the country. You are tho' we are bigger than then, as we now have the 10th best supported club in the country. But that was then (and now). This is about the future, and I think the palace board make interesting observations that apply to us as well. You dont, and I dont force you to either but I wonder what Tony Bloom thinks.

 

[El Presidente]

The Albion is a far bigger club now than it ever was in the 70's or 80's. We used to get an average of 14,000 in the top division!

Ah this old chestnut, for one season under Bailey, when Arsenal would get 18000. No the Goldstone wasnt packed every week but it was getting gates for its division greater than those in that division, for many many seasons. It also was host to BHA who in the 70's and early 80's had the 11th best support in the country. You are tho' we are bigger than then, as we now have the 10th best supported club in the country. But that was then (and now). This is about the future, and I think the palace board make interesting observations that apply to us as well. You dont, and I dont force you to either but I wonder what Tony Bloom thinks.[/QUOTE]

I recall the Albion getting 9,000 for a top flight game.

 

[Seasidesage]

I think both sides of this argument are correct to a degree. We have been a bandwagon as a club through all of my supporting life from the late 60's until now. Fact is we are around the 10th best supported club when things are going well as now. But are capable of getting considerably less than 10k when it isn't. The trick that successive boards have failed with is stablising our support and increasing the top end.

The new ground will achieve the first objective IMO. How we make the breakthrough from where we are, significantly higher into that top ten is anyone's guess. Mine is it's not possible, in my lifetime at least...

 

[Working class pride]

Ah this old chestnut, for one season under Bailey, when Arsenal would get 18000. No the Goldstone wasnt packed every week but it was getting gates for its division greater than those in that division, for many many seasons. It also was host to BHA who in the 70's and early 80's had the 11th best support in the country. You are tho' we are bigger than then, as we now have the 10th best supported club in the country. But that was then (and now). This is about the future, and I think the palace board make interesting observations that apply to us as well. You dont, and I dont force you to either but I wonder what Tony Bloom thinks.

I recall the Albion getting 9,000 for a top flight game.[/QUOTE]

And I remember Brighton getting 30000 in the third division, Arsenal getting 18000 for a game in the top flight and Palace getting 14000 when 3rd in the top flight.. and your point is? However its not stopping the palace board seeing an opportunity that you obviously dont see for Albion or palace. Personally tho, I think the palace board are right to think as they do, I think similar and Brighton would be right to do the same. Obviously you dont and thats fair enough

 

[El Presidente]

I recall the Albion getting 9,000 for a top flight game.

And I remember Brighton getting 30000 in the third division, Arsenal getting 18000 for a game in the top flight and Palace getting 14000 when 3rd in the top flight.. and your point is? However its not stopping the palace board seeing an opportunity that you obviously dont see for Albion or palace. Personally tho, I think the palace board are right to think as they do, I think similar and Brighton would be right to do the same. Obviously you dont and thats fair enough[/QUOTE]

You think similar as the Palace board........I wonder why?

 

[KZNSeagull]

So what is their plan to become a "Premier League high roller", whatever one of those is? How many more administrations will achieve this glorious aim?

What do you believe the Brighton board should do then? You have made it clear that the players we have do not deserve to play in front of 28,000 fans, so what must change? How much will it cost? Who is going to pay for it?

 

[Brovion]

From the Standard tonight:-
"..the clubs board were discussing how they could become one of the Premier Leagues high rollers...Stoke has a much smaller catchment area than Palace and has a smaller potential ... We are the biggest club in South Londonand within an hour of Selhurst there are more than 5 million people...the only reason we have not fulfilled it is because we have always gone straight back down again.. the club have already sold 15000 of the 17000 season tickets, almost double the 8,000 season ticket holders at Selhurst Park in the Championship"

Interesting comments and my thoughts are:-

1. Palace are a club who had 8000 season ticket holders in the championship. Brighton & Hove Albion have circa 23,000/24,000, this three times palace when in the same division, but their board are correct, Palace do have a good catchment area, although historically they are not the biggest club in South London (Charlton have in their history regular gates of 70,000).
2. For those on NSC who still dont get the link between catchment areas, attendances and potential and therefore still don't agree that Brighton have under achieved, well the Evening Standard, the board at Palace and most followers of football (I would suggest) do understand that link.
3. Palace's catchment area is not as defined as the Albion's and we are so lucky to have a County identity. This is why I and many others with Albion in the family going back generations knew full well the potential of the club. The question I have is when will the some questions that are being asked by the board at Selhurst be asked at Brighton? Or have they been and are some fans just lagging behind a bit?
4. What will stop Brighton moving forward? Failing to gain promotion and transport that will stop the ground from being expanded.

They've got bigger fish to fry than us now haven't they?

And you're wrong about the catchment area. Yes if there were four or five league teams in Sussex (including another one in Brighton and Hove like there is in Bristol) then it would be a factor, but having a large catchment area hasn't historically helped Yeovil or Exeter become big clubs. Sussex has never been a footballing hotbed like, say, Lancashire.

Palace have always been bigger than us. Maybe our day will come, maybe it won't. Just enjoy it and don't fret about what others are doing.

 

[DNB_Seagull]

We know the riches that await in the PL, so the question is how to ge there

We know there are stringent financial controls via FFP, and most people agree that we have to adhere, as to flout them would be counterproductive

We are currently without a manager, and have a depleted squad, albeit with some DS players having made the step up and held their own, so are genuine first team material next season

SO, what the club need to do is hire a manager that can work with the squad we have, agree on the signing of further members, and mould them into a team capable of mounting a serious promotion challenge, while working within the mentioned financial framework

This is not an impossible task, and if the right candidate and players are hired, it can happen

Time is of the essence, so while caution and due process are important, balls need to be started rolling, which I should imagine is already the case

The way Brighton are going. We'd be up if the FA impose point deductions on FFP rule breakers.

 

[dangull]

To be fair though if Brighton do get promoted to the premier league in the near future, they probably could get gates of over 35,000 for a lot of games judging by the gates they have been getting in the championship in the last 2 seasons. Not sure if the Amex can be expanded in the near future though for various reasons that people have stated on NSC here before.

 

[studio150]

Wasn't the last time Palace thought big the Terry Venables team of the 80s that was going to conquer England and Europe. No doubt history will repeat so a record breaking defeat at Liverpool and relegation beckons for next season.

 

[Diego Napier]

No you mis understand. This does not have a pop at Tony Bloom. If you ever read my posts you will know I make that very same point many, many times. The point I make is the link between size of support, expectation and ambition. It is not a fishing trip, and if you read my 4 points, then what in them do you think is fishing, controversial or wrong?

No, you make the very same point many, many, many times.

Obsessively so.

 

[VHA on NSC]

From the Standard tonight:-
"..the clubs board were discussing how they could become one of the Premier Leagues high rollers...Stoke has a much smaller catchment area than Palace and has a smaller potential ... We are the biggest club in South Londonand within an hour of Selhurst there are more than 5 million people...the only reason we have not fulfilled it is because we have always gone straight back down again.. the club have already sold 15000 of the 17000 season tickets, almost double the 8,000 season ticket holders at Selhurst Park in the Championship"

Interesting comments and my thoughts are:-

1. Palace are a club who had 8000 season ticket holders in the championship. Brighton & Hove Albion have circa 23,000/24,000, this three times palace when in the same division, but their board are correct, Palace do have a good catchment area, although historically they are not the biggest club in South London (Charlton have in their history regular gates of 70,000).
2. For those on NSC who still dont get the link between catchment areas, attendances and potential and therefore still don't agree that Brighton have under achieved, well the Evening Standard, the board at Palace and most followers of football (I would suggest) do understand that link.
3. Palace's catchment area is not as defined as the Albion's and we are so lucky to have a County identity. This is why I and many others with Albion in the family going back generations knew full well the potential of the club. The question I have is when will the some questions that are being asked by the board at Selhurst be asked at Brighton? Or have they been and are some fans just lagging behind a bit?
4. What will stop Brighton moving forward? Failing to gain promotion and transport that will stop the ground from being expanded.

I can only presume that, at the key moments, Palace concentrated more on what was going on the pitch, and the rest took care of itself to an extent.

However, I'm sure in due course that the folly of not harnessing the power of six decades of sweat from the brow of manual labourers and the empire built on sand that is not taking over the town of Chesterfield (or wherever) in 1973 will soon bite South London's finest on the arse.

How sad that WCP's commitment to proletarian values precludes him from showing these evil capitalist club owners how it should be done, 1917 style.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Palace have been talking about their potential, based on the number of people in their catchment area, for as long as I can remember - ie back to 1970 and beyond.

The problem with that is that the people in that catchment area can get to Chelsea, Arsenal, West Ham or Tottenham almost as easily as they can to Palace, and watch better football in more comfortable stadiums.