Our troops homecoming

[dingodan]

Appeal to 'authority' - UNOCAL in 1998? pur-lease, if you're going to use an appeal to some assumed authority, make sure it's not f***ing UNOCAL. Your "argument" is a f***ing joke, for reasons I won't go into (mainly because you're a verbose, ignorant fool, and I have other things to do).

Try to learn some basic logic and you might make more coherent statements, you're all over the place, seriously

I dont know wtf you are talking about to be honest. "appeal to some assumed authority"?, "f***ing UNOCAL"?

Unocal Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - UNOCAL was a major petroleum explorer. It is now merged with Chevron Corporation.

The quotes in my post are from:

48–119 CC
U.S. INTERESTS IN THE CENTRAL ASIAN REPUBLICS

HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON ASIA AND THE PACIFIC

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

FEBRUARY 12, 1998

The Afghanistan war commenced October 7, 2001.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make and given that [My] "argument" is a f***ing joke, for reasons [you] won't go into (mainly because [I'm] a verbose, ignorant fool, and [you] have other things to do). I guess I will never know.

 

[dingodan]

That is EXACTLY what he's doing. He's giving us some "truth" that CNN, the BBC, The Guardian, the Morning Star, the Beano, the Bunty, and the Bare Arse Monthly, and even The Seagull Love Review all seemed to have missed, i.e. : THE ULTIMATE REASON WHY NATO ARE IN AFGHANISTAN - it wuz the OIL pipeline

How did we miss it?

Guess I missed my calling, should have been a journo.

 

[xenophon]

I demonstrated that Oil interests were lobbying the U.S. government for changes to the sociopolitical circumstances in Afghanistan in 1998, and doing so for the sake of building oil and gas pipelines.
.

Sure, but you sure as shit haven't demonstrated they ACTED on that lobbying. If you think you have, go on and show us, I'm genuinely interested.

I think 3 large aircraft being flown into various iconic buildings on mainland USA may have been more relevant to any consequent US/UK/NATO policy in both Afghanistan and Iraq (whether you think either strategy was "right" or "wrong" is besides the point)

 

[xenophon]

Guess I missed my calling, should have been a journo.

You'd be quite a lazy one, trust me

 

[poidy]

I know my feelings wont be welcome in this thread.

Some of this stuff makes me feel sick though. These young men are sent to kill and die for absolutely nothing.

Their blood is shed for oil and empire. They are the pawns of the special interests.

Im sorry and this is not an indictment of the boys and girls themselves. But silence is as deadly as violence.

We should look at ourselves when we "shed tears" and talk of "heros", when what we are talking about is an invading army. Its not their fault where they are sent and what they are ordered to do, but not for the best part of 70 years has a soldier been sent to a foriegn land in the defence of this country.

Sorry.

Cannot be bothered to argue or ellaborate on my feelings towards this post as we are clearly dealing with a naive and narrow minded individual.

I merely post to inform you that you are a grade A

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

Supporting our Troops is not the same as supporting the War (or whatever the correct terminology may be).

Correct on both points...Well said !

 

[poidy]

I know people wont like this, but freedom of speech and all that (I appreciate the irony of my anti war stance and the fact without war we wouldnt have freedom of speech, I also appreciate if the Nazi gained power, we would be on cctv every minute of out life, carry ID card, have cival rights taken off of us,loose the right to protest, pretty much be like if the last Labour goverment had come to power 10 years ago but they would use the term Politacaly correct, Oh wait a minute......)

If I made the choice to be trained to kill and then take part in an illegal war which was against the majority of the countries opinion at the same time spending Millions on the formentioned war which was later proved to be a goverment whitewash for an oil dispute, would they have a parade for me?!

I am sorry but these people made a choice to do what they do, fair play they are brave and I respect them for that but so are people who bungee jump

I did not support the war and do not feel how it benefitted this country in any way whatsoever, so why should I be respectful of a group of people who got paid to do their chosen carrier

And your a aswell

 

[Bold Seagull]

I know people wont like this, but freedom of speech and all that (I appreciate the irony of my anti war stance and the fact without war we wouldnt have freedom of speech, I also appreciate if the Nazi gained power, we would be on cctv every minute of out life, carry ID card, have cival rights taken off of us,loose the right to protest, pretty much be like if the last Labour goverment had come to power 10 years ago but they would use the term Politacaly correct, Oh wait a minute......)

If I made the choice to be trained to kill and then take part in an illegal war which was against the majority of the countries opinion at the same time spending Millions on the formentioned war which was later proved to be a goverment whitewash for an oil dispute, would they have a parade for me?!

I am sorry but these people made a choice to do what they do, fair play they are brave and I respect them for that but so are people who bungee jump

I did not support the war and do not feel how it benefitted this country in any way whatsoever, so why should I be respectful of a group of people who got paid to do their chosen carrier

Painful to read this while I'm currently reading the Imperial War Museum's 'Forgotten Voices' book on DDay, based on first hand accounts. Not men who had 'chosen' to be soldiers, young conscripted men straight off farms or out of factories.

Our armed forces do a huge amount around the world that apparently misses your wide spectrum of knowledge, whether hunting the pirates off Somalia, the drug barrons in the Caribbean, ensuring the distribution of aid in some areas, to supporting the UN and other humanitarian requirements.

They do of course sign up, take the risk, probably want to test their skills in a combat situation for the most part, however equally so does a fireman when he enters a burning building to rescue one of us, and equally a hero when that risk costs him his or her life.

I think you need to wake up and realise there are many parts of this world that don't enjoy our freedoms. You can sit at your nice little computer with your broadband, and your cup of tea, making your sweeping statements based on little more than cynicism, conspiracy and hearsay.

 

[Seagull Steve]

Can I just say, THIS THREAD WAS MADE FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO RESPECT AND WELCOME HOME OUR TROOPS. NOT TO HAVE A FREE FOR ALL.

Try and have a bit of grown up decorum please.

 

[dingodan]

Cannot be bothered to argue or ellaborate on my feelings towards this post as we are clearly dealing with a naive and narrow minded individual.

I merely post to inform you that you are a grade A

Intelligent response. This is how this thread has gone:

I say, "troops are dying for oil and empire." response I get is "Afghanistan has no oil." I respond by saying "no, but it is a route for a desired pipeline", the response I get is "that just sounds like heresay." I respond by saying "its not heresay, here is where you can see that it is a route for a desired pipeline." The response I then get is, your a wanker.

You people would make me laugh if your ignorance wasnt so deadly.

 

[xenophon]

Hahahahaha, this thread is 'Gold'

Take a bow, dildodan = total f***ing ledge

 

[dingodan]

Can I just say, THIS THREAD WAS MADE FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO RESPECT AND WELCOME HOME OUR TROOPS. NOT TO HAVE A FREE FOR ALL.

Try and have a bit of grown up decorum please.

I dont disagree with this at all. I have refrained from being abusive and rude, and I do understand the motivation for this thread. I have posted what I have posted in support of our sons, daughters, mothers, fathers and brothers and sisters, and believe me there are many in the military who know exactly what I am talking about.

But this is not just about a pat on the back and a "well done". If you want to support the troops the first rule you have to have is that you never want to see them put in harms way unless absolutely neccessary.

These wars do not qualify. Every death in Afghanistan and Iraq, be they Brit, American, Iraqi, Afghani, or anyother nation, is totally unneccessary.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

So let me get this straight. You're argument is that the US instigated the invasion of Afghanistan on the invitation of a lobby group for the petro-chemical industry after they after they made representation to the US Government in 1989.

*Face-firmly-in-palm*

 

[dingodan]

So let me get this straight. You're argument is that the US instigated the invasion of Afghanistan on the invitation of a lobby group for the petro-chemical industry after they after they made representation to the US Government in 1989.

*Face-firmly-in-palm*

In 1998. Yes that is what I suspect. Although other geopolitical reasons will have only made it more inviting.

But you say this like I like this fact. It makes me sick. And it should you. Thats the whole reason I have posted on the subject.

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

Countries need an Army for obvious reasons. Yes, National Defence. If our shores are approached aggressively by a foriegn power, I myself will take up arms and fight. But that has not happened since WWII.

I thought they were locating and destroying terrorist training camps? Surely it is better to be proactive than to wait for thousands of trained terrorists to storm our shores!

Just a thought like!

You've asked and answered your question and one which I agree with Bones, perhaps Dingodan could remove his head from up his arse and explain 7/7 in London (now this should be good). Use all the clever words you want mate, when speaking with the troops as I've mentioned elsewhere I learnt more in 5 minutes than all the news and tv stories from the men themselves. There were protesters at the peace statue today expressing their democratic right to do so and with whom I spoke to and at the end of it we shook hands and agreed to disagree, Its called debate and the impression that I get from your rants is that your a college student who is so self opinionated that you could cause an argument in an empty room.

As someone else has suggested elsewhere on the board, without our troops and our support for them "You" would not have the opportunity to rant

 

[poidy]

Intelligent response. This is how this thread has gone:

I say, "troops are dying for oil and empire." response I get is "Afghanistan has no oil." I respond by saying "no, but it is a route for a desired pipeline", the response I get is "that just sounds like heresay." I respond by saying "its not heresay, here is where you can see that it is a route for a desired pipeline." The response I then get is, your a wanker.

You people would make me laugh if your ignorance wasnt so deadly.

As well as suggesting that only the poorest people in the UK sign up and that we only need an armed forces to protect OUR shores. You think being in Afghanistan is so wrong do you? Would you like to see repeats of 7/7 in our capital? How would you feel if a terrorist who was trained and brainwashed in Afghan came to England and blew himself up on a train, bus or even a plane. How would you feel if a member of your family was sat next to them when it was detonated? Your wife, kids maybe or even parents. Would your views on war in Afghanastan change?

Think yourself lucky joing the forces is a choice and this country still has people making that choice. Otherwise it could have been you out there on national service like 70years ago. Although perhaps that wouldnt be such a bad thing given your blinkered view on the subject.

 

[dingodan]

You've asked and answered your question and one which I agree with Bones, perhaps Dingodan could remove his head from up his arse and explain 7/7 in London (now this should be good). Use all the clever words you want mate, when speaking with the troops as I've mentioned elsewhere I learnt more in 5 minutes than all the news and tv stories from the men themselves. There were protesters at the peace statue today expressing their democratic right to do so and with whom I spoke to and at the end of it we shook hands and agreed to disagree, Its called debate and the impression that I get from your rants is that your a college student who is so self opinionated that you could cause an argument in an empty room.

As someone else has suggested elsewhere on the board, without our troops and our support for them "You" would not have the opportunity to rant

I dont have freedom of speech thanks to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And we could agree to disagree, trouble with that is the war just goes on and on. I would shake all of your hands (I'd imagine I wont get an invite to) and I have not called anyone here anything like what Ive been called.

7/7? Was that an attack by Iraq and Afghanistan? It was tragic and repulsive. But what it was not was the fault of the people dying in Iraq and Afghanistan. The people who carried out 7/7 were British. The people who carried out 9/11 were mostly (15/19) Saudi.

The sad fact is that most suicide terrorism is motivated by occupation. Which means our intefering in other nations only serves to put us at greater risk of terrorism anyway. There is a good book called "dying to win" by Robert Pape that deals with this subject.

If anyone really believes that these wars are making us safer, they are mistaken.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Im best man at a wedding this weekend. There will be a lot of armed forces there as the groom is a captain of the royal engineers. I believe it is honour the forces on Saturday, so will be sure to thank them for risking life and limb.

Roll out the barrel...

 

[dingodan]

As well as suggesting that only the poorest people in the UK sign up and that we only need an armed forces to protect OUR shores. You think being in Afghanistan is so wrong do you? Would you like to see repeats of 7/7 in our capital? How would you feel if a terrorist who was trained and brainwashed in Afghan came to England and blew himself up on a train, bus or even a plane. How would you feel if a member of your family was sat next to them when it was detonated? Your wife, kids maybe or even parents. Would your views on war in Afghanastan change?

Think yourself lucky joing the forces is a choice and this country still has people making that choice. Otherwise it could have been you out there on national service like 70years ago. Although perhaps that wouldnt be such a bad thing given your blinkered view on the subject.

If my family were killed on 7/7 I would not be after blood. I would want to know why. I would want to know, what motivates someone to blow themselves up and take others with them?

And I would soon find out. Occupation is the cause of suicide terrorism. The CIA knows this, they call it blowback or unitended consequences, a response to foriegn policy.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Bin Laden threw his toy's out of the pram because US troops were stationed in Saudi for the first Iraq
War, apparently this was sacrilege. He was not happy!
Of the 9/11 lot most spent time in training camps in Afghanistan, it was planned from Afghaistan and run from Afghanistan which might have something to do with the invasion ..... Like.