[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[Thunder Bolt]

I think you are sounding a bit like Keir.
Labour screwed up badly putting in Keir, he clearly has less morals than the Tories. Does anyone in the UK still trust this man? He has to go for labour to get back in again, why he hasn't stepped a side yet?

I don’t. I thought he would do a good job, but he hasn’t.
I voted LibDems btw, and haven’t voted Labour for over 25 years, just in case you thought I was a ‘looney leftie’.

 

[Bodian]

It’s costing £10K for each by-election. That’s £120K so far.

Maybe the resigning councillors could foot the bill. Or it could come from the company account of Reform UK Ltd?

 

[Weststander]

I don’t. I thought he would do a good job, but he hasn’t.
I voted LibDems btw, and haven’t voted Labour for over 25 years, just in case you thought I was a ‘looney leftie’.

Would that be because Labour have never had a hope in hell of usurping the Tories in your neck of the woods?

Did you vote for enemy of the Albion Norman Baker?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Would that be because Labour have never had a hope in hell of usurping the Tories in your neck of the woods?

Did you vote for enemy of the Albion Norman Baker?

No, to my shame I voted for Maria Caulfield in 2010. I didn’t repeat that mistake.

 

[jcdenton08]

No, to my shame I voted for Maria Caulfield in 2010. I didn’t repeat that mistake.

Awful woman, also voted for her to my regret. As useful as a chocolate teapot.

 

[Weststander]

No, to my shame I voted for Maria Caulfield in 2010. I didn’t repeat that mistake.

Didn’t she change, becoming anti EU to stay relevant to the ERM once they’d in effect seized control of the party? Seemed moderate in 2010.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Didn’t she change, becoming anti EU to stay relevant to the ERM once they’d in effect seized control of the party? Seemed moderate in 2010.

Yes. It just goes to show how untrustworthy she was.

 

[clapham_gull]

Huge increases in the UK population (now 10m since 1997), simply wasn’t met with increased new housing, schools, doctors surgeries and doctors, hospital capacity, roads to match. Very British incompetence over the last 45 years under blue, red and coalition, next to no strategic top down planning. Whilst nimbies prevented or very deliberately ground to an expensive halt any development. There was literally no plan. Just a de facto open the borders, to fill unskilled jobs and trades. Jobs Brits didn’t want to do anymore, no one is quite sure why.

The obvious result … huge rises in house prices, homelessness, rent increases, sofa surfing or multi-gen families packed into a dwelling. Giving rise to huge inequality and unhappiness.

To underline, under governments of all colours.

I’d love Labour to crack this. The obvious need is for the existing UK working age population to get skilled up in meaningful professions and trades, Germany always the shining example. Proper apprenticeships. To reduce the lazy approach by governments and employers of bringing in workers. Tied to that, building decent, affordable homes in huge numbers.

Consecutive governments (and basically all of us) have had our head in the sand regarding the ageing population. The majority of carers in the UK aren't immigrants but there simply aren't enough. 6 million are family members of friends who are performing the role unpaid.

This of course has an effect on the number of the elderly taking up beds in the NHS.

We are culturally very bad at looking after the elderly, hoping the state will step in. The state clearly doesn't consider care as a skilled profession, doesn't pay enough and therefore has to cast it's net wide to get enough staff.

That's really the elephant in the room. There needs to be a proper conversation where the burden is shared between family and state.

If we want lower migration in the care sector, we're going to have to pay for it.

Which is why snake oil salesman like Farage are just snake oil salesman.

 

[A1X]

It'd be nice to think that one day Britain might actually grow up enough to have a conversation about immigration which doesn't just end up boiling down to "so how much do you hate it?"

Alas I suspect we'll never be allowed to reach that stage as there's too much money to be made by the establishment over painting immigration as a 100% negative and something which must be forever cut more and more. Still, at least if people are furious about the immigrants then they won't turn on the people who are actually making everyone's lives shite.

 

[jcdenton08]

It'd be nice to think that one day Britain might actually grow up enough to have a conversation about immigration which doesn't just end up boiling down to "so how much do you hate it?"

Alas I suspect we'll never be allowed to reach that stage as there's too much money to be made by the establishment over painting immigration as a 100% negative and something which must be forever cut more and more.

Immigration needs to be cut. That’s the starting point for the discussion. Every major party agrees on this.

Immigration is not a 100% negative. I don’t think many people believe this. The NHS would collapse without immigrant labour.

But nearly a million year incoming net is not sustainable.

That’s where the conversation starts.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Reform are gaining votes because we have an electorate who seem to think that all of their problems are down to immigrants, when really, it's not. It's down to Brexit, the gap between the rich and the poor getting wider and the press feeding the immigrant narrative so that the rich can stay richer and be seen to not be at fault.

They also seem to think that being green is 'woke' and people HATE woke, because yet again, the press and social media, have made it out to be the devil, some of which, I actually agree with because I do think the left have completely lost their heads and focused on the less important issues and there is an air of snobbery about them, but, this means that the important issues are being ignored.

Brexit is a massive part of this as well, because the country is poorer.

I really really hope that we see the benefits to Labours plans in 2 years, on most areas.

Just want a centre government who improves us, get's us closer to Europe for the economy, and takes the science seriously on climate change.

 

[clapham_gull]

That’s where the conversation starts.

No, the conversation should start on why we haven't got enough carers and the like.

It's easy to start a conversation on the water pouring through your roof and not have the one about the hole in it.

 

[BadFish]

Immigration needs to be cut. That’s the starting point for the discussion. Every major party agrees on this.

Immigration is not a 100% negative. I don’t think many people believe this. The NHS would collapse without immigrant labour.

But nearly a million year incoming net is not sustainable.

That’s where the conversation starts.

That's where the conversation started 20 odd years ago. It's not time for the conversation to start, it's time for it to progress.

It's time for those that argue it should be less to tell us what the number should be.

Then a discussion can start.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

That's where the conversation started 20 odd years ago. It's not time for the conversation to start, it's time for it to progress.

It's time for those that argue it should be less to tell us what the number should be.

Then a discussion can start.

agree.

 

[A1X]

Immigration needs to be cut. That’s the starting point for the discussion. Every major party agrees on this.

Them saying it's true doesn't make it true.

You agree with them that it's true. But unfortunately that doesn't make it true either.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Consecutive governments (and basically all of us) have had our head in the sand regarding the ageing population. The majority of carers in the UK aren't immigrants but there simply aren't enough. 6 million are family members of friends who are performing the role unpaid.

This of course has an effect on the number of the elderly taking up beds in the NHS.

We are culturally very bad at looking after the elderly, hoping the state will step in. The state clearly doesn't consider care as a skilled profession, doesn't pay enough and therefore has to cast it's net wide to get enough staff.

That's really the elephant in the room. There needs to be a proper conversation where the burden is shared between family and state.

If we want lower migration in the care sector, we're going to have to pay for it.

Which is why snake oil salesman like Farage are just snake oil salesman.

Excellent point, also.

 

[clapham_gull]

It's worth listening to the utter nonsense of Tice when challenged about care workers.

Their solution is to "increase wages", well since it is paid for by your local council his party will need to square that with their promise to lower taxes.

They will also talk about lowering the taxes for the low paid. Nice idea, except the salaries they are quoting are right at the bottom of the carer scale. A solution to help people off benefits of course, but nothing to do with carers.

It doesn't take much to scratch beneath the surface, but they are full of shit.

To them and Badenoch who I can't be bothered to quote, carers are simply uneducated manual workers.

With all this apparent immigration there are still apparently 131,000 open vacancies even within the ridiculously under funded sector.

 

[clapham_gull]

"This country is full up"

Yes, but only in the sense that a cruise liner is full up if 50 passengers are onboard and they only built a single life boat.

I've experienced the NHS / Social in Sussex at great length. It's in part f*****, but they aren't immigrants in the doctor's surgery.

 

[Hugo Rune]

It's worth listening to the utter nonsense of Tice when challenged about care workers.

Their solution is to "increase wages", well since it is paid for by your local council his party will need to square that with their promise to lower taxes.

They will also talk about lowering the taxes for the low paid. Nice idea, except the salaries they are quoting are right at the bottom of the carer scale. A solution to help people off benefits of course, but nothing to do with carers.

It doesn't take much to scratch beneath the surface, but they are full of shit.

To them and Badenoch who I can't be bothered to quote, carers are simply uneducated manual workers.

With all this apparent immigration there are still apparently 131,000 open vacancies even within the ridiculously under funded sector.

I heard him on 5live this morning. He has absolutely no coherent strategy or solutions for enticing many of the 3 million unemployed working age (and able to work) UK residents into paid employment in sectors such as the care industry. To say he is full of shit is an understatement.

There needs to be the most profound paradigm shift in the UK in terms of who we think should be working in our care homes, hospitals, restaurants and shops etc. The money is there to pay UK residents more in those various sectors but it's going to have to come from the billionaires rather than 99% of tax payers. These are the people behind Reform and power the toxic media that supports them, these are the people who have become astonishingly richer in the last 14 years of Conservative governments. These are the people who fund the hate, ignorance and total lack of solutions that the Reform party represent.

 

[DJ NOBO]

No, the conversation should start on why we haven't got enough carers and the like.

It's easy to start a conversation on the water pouring through your roof and not have the one about the hole in it.

Weaning the country off foreign carers is a massive challenge. As a nation We have got ourselves into a right pickle.

There is plenty of fat around the immigration bones before you need to go down that road though.

As we have seen this week, Even our Labour PM accepts that!