[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[BadFish]

I understand both your and @Commander 's points of view.

I think the answer is that most people who vote Remain don't really want to go into too many details.

This is partly because it involves explaining a range of things that are not true (mostly around how easily Nigel can fix all the problems with a click of his fingers - so far untested so something to cling on to).

And it is partly because of things most 'nice' people don't like to broadcast:
"Nigel will stick it to all those people I don't like and who I blame for the state of the nation":
(any individual can pick and choose - Reform is entirely inclusive and who cares if targets are conflicted)
Foreigners,
people ramming their perverted sexuality in my face,
womens libbers,
people playing the 'mental health card',
blacks who won't integrated into my culture,
blacks who have 'integrated' and have taken my job/shagged my bird,
muslims,
football hooligans,
people who are against ordinary white blokes having banter at the football,
people who can't take a joke,
the nanny state,
social workers,
nonces,
cyclists

and so on.

The question then is fourfold:
Can labour recognise the grievances of these people?
Can labour do anything to help them feel better?
How much damage will be done to labour if they rightly tell these people to grow up or f*** off?
How much damage will be done to Labour if they try to pander to this tosh?

The problem is there is mass of voters who don't care about details.
They seem like football fans who would rather lose a match than get a correct decision via VAR
They just want visceral excitement
They want to feel they are getting the upper hand over all those they feel as threat
They cannot be shown they are voting against their own best interest.
They are certain, just like the folk who no longer read NSC because it is woke.
They are unreachable.

They will change only when they suffer and can see this is because of Reform
This will require Reform exercising government power, because locally failure can be blamed on Deep State.
These people are not reading NSC.
They are not reading the BBC.
They don't even know anyone who thinks differently.

How did we allow Farage to grow this filthy mess?

All good points except they are on NSC, there are several people on this thread supporting/defending/considering Reform and their policies.

 

[Cordwainer]

It will cost Lincolnshire Council more money. If the council blocks planning apps for no reason, other than because we said, it will be turned over on appeal. Lincolnshire Council will then be subject to paying developer costs.

Shhh..don’t tell the luddites that. They’re currently busy redrafting The Enclosures Acts.

 

[nicko31]

Farage certainly supports many of the policies which have so badly damaged Britain since the 1980s - he is to the Right of Thatcher.

He favours more tax cuts for the rich, more privatisation, more dismantling or contracting-out of local government and public services, more curbs on workers’ rights (note the attacks on WFH), closer ties with the US, and yet more cuts to welfare.

It’s incredible that millions of people whose communities have been destroyed and impoverished by the economic policies of the last 40 years think that Farage will save them - he supported those policies.

Farage is like an arsonist who sets fire to your house, but then expects a medal for phoning the fire brigade - and blaming someone else for burning down your house.

I totally understand that people are disillusioned with Labour and the Tories, but I wish they would look a little more closely at what Farage and Reform really stand for. He really is no friend of ordinary people/the working-class.

Reform UK are a party (or plc) led by millionaires, and funded by millionaires and billionaires.

I’m afraid like Trump we are dealing with a bit of a personality cult. He is a master at persuading ordinary folk to make disasterous decisions against their own interests.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Unlike the main parties who DO explain what they will do then do the exact opposite.

Perhaps the reason for this is that their own plans collide with reality and this quickly brings about a marked change in trajectory.

 

[Berty23]

Question for reform voters. When Jenkins says they will return Britain to its glorious past - when do they mean?

 

[TomandJerry]

Question for reform voters. When Jenkins says they will return Britain to its glorious past - when do they mean?

Depends on the context and the actual quote, can you provide the source of when he said this?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

How did we allow Farage to grow this filthy mess?

Democracy innit.

Always thought it was overrated.

 

[TomandJerry]

Democracy innit.

Always thought it was overrated.

Who would your choice of dictator be then ?

 

[nevergoagain]

Which were the policies that you were liked. I read it at the time and it was a load of unfunded nonsense. If you care to highlight the bits you like then I will explain how they are a shambles.

They simply say

“We will reduce “wasteful” spending by £50 billion per year across all government departments, quangos and commissions.”

This is like the crap spouted by DOGE saying they will save trillions when in reality it is a few billion. It is absolutely mental and means all the rest of their manifesto is uncosted nonsense. It will crash the economy faster than truss.

50 billion is give or take the entire defence budget and they think they can save that with sorting some inefficiencies on already massively strained budgets. It is laughable.

I can't be bothered to type them again, I explained it clearly to you yesterday. What was your answer to the question of how long a sentence should be for punching 2 police officers ?.

 

[Bodian]

It’s undoubtedly a value for taxpayers money issue.

I doubt anyone would care if WFH practices delivered increased or even stable productivity levels however on balance overall it doesn’t.

Whilst the overall effect of the pandemic on the UK economy was negative, this was amplified by poor worker productivity. Studies may indicate workers were happier, but that does not automatically translate to positive productivity.

For the public sector productivity is still below pre pandemic levels whereas in the private sector productivity has regained and surpassed its 2019 data points.

The public-sector productivity problem

Strikes, pay rises and a productivity problem in the UK public sector.

search.app

A significant component to this improvent in the private sector has been forcing employees back to their places of work, those in the public sector will need to suck it up.

On this issue, Reform are right to get public sector workers back to their places of work.

Please provide the actual evidence / studies that link WFH and drops in public sector productivity - because the article you have given us makes no such causal link. And also provide information on how you are measuring 'public sector productivity'. It's not a matter of units of production or something that is simply measured. In my area of work I do feel productivity has gone down - but that is because we have had so many cuts over the last 15 years that we are unable to work efficiently and are mainly fire-fighting, which is unproductive in as much as we are always playing catch-up. That and changes in legislation which hamper rather than facilitate our work. Nothing whatsoever to do with WFH.

So that's the fault of the Conservative government, Farage wasn't in charge of the country when border security went downhill.

Border security hasn't really changed or gone downhill though.

Shhh..don’t tell the luddites that. They’re currently busy redrafting The Enclosures Acts.

About time too!

Depends on the context and the actual quote, can you provide the source of when he said this?

As yo providing source of quotes - this is a bit like pots and kettles. It would be quite useful if you could do as you have suggested yourself - because you provide a lot of quotes - but rarely put the source of them, so we all have to try and find them ourselves.

In respect of your question - it was in her victory speech. https://news.sky.com/video/former-c...nkyns-becomes-reform-uks-first-mayor-13359651

 

[TomandJerry]

Please provide the actual evidence / studies that link WFH and drops in public sector productivity - because the article you have given us makes no such causal link. And also provide information on how you are measuring 'public sector productivity'. It's not a matter of units of production or something that is simply measured. In my area of work I do feel productivity has gone down - but that is because we have had so many cuts over the last 15 years that we are unable to work efficiently and are mainly fire-fighting, which is unproductive in as much as we are always playing catch-up. That and changes in legislation which hamper rather than facilitate our work. Nothing whatsoever to do with WFH.



Border security hasn't really changed or gone downhill though.

About time too!

As yo providing source of quotes - this is a bit like pots and kettles. It would be quite useful if you could do as you have suggested yourself - because you provide a lot of quotes - but rarely put the source of them, so we all have to try and find them ourselves.

In respect of your question - it was in her victory speech. https://news.sky.com/video/former-c...nkyns-becomes-reform-uks-first-mayor-13359651

Thanks for the link,

As far as I can tell, the good old days of secure boarders, and those communities left behind are bought back upto speed, with British people being the priority

 

[The Clamp]

Question for reform voters. When Jenkins says they will return Britain to its glorious past - when do they mean?

Around the time of the Witch Trials.

 

[Berty23]

I can't be bothered to type them again, I explained it clearly to you yesterday. What was your answer to the question of how long a sentence should be for punching 2 police officers ?.

I responded to all of those points.

 

[pocketseagull]

communities left behind are bought back upto speed, with British people being the priority

If communities have been left behind it isn't the fault of immigrants so this is essentially racist/xenophobic.

Also, Reform MPs all voted against improving Workers' rights. They are not on your side.

 

[TomandJerry]

If communities have been left behind it isn't the fault of immigrants so this is essentially racist/xenophobic.

Also, Reform MPs all voted against improving Workers' rights. They are not on your side.

Are Reform directly blaming immigrants for certain communities being left behind?

 

[pocketseagull]

If communities have been left behind then jobs, opportunities etc should be for everyone who lives there.

 

[Berty23]

Thanks for the link,

As far as I can tell, the good old days of secure boarders, and those communities left behind are bought back upto speed, with British people being the priority

When were these days with communities left behind being helped?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Depends on the context and the actual quote, can you provide the source of when he said this?

Andrea Jenkyns in her acceptance speech in Lincoln. Her, who was rejected as a Tory MP, for Morley, nr Leeds, last July. Known for giving the public the finger, when heckled.
When was this glorious past she is talking about? 70s, 60s, 50s?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Thanks for the link,

As far as I can tell, the good old days of secure boarders, and those communities left behind are bought back upto speed, with British people being the priority

There were black people living in London in Tudor times. We are all mongrels. Farage himself is descended from French Huguenot refugees.
Every British person is descended from boat people. Romans, Saxons, Angles, Jutes, Vikings, Normans etc.

During the Second World War, Britain put out a plea to the Commonwealth to help us, and after to come and rebuild the country, although qualified engineers, accountants etc were put to work as bus conductors and cleaners because their qualifications weren’t good enough for the white bosses.
Yes, I remember the 50s of this glorious land.

 

[clapham_gull]

Question for reform voters. When Jenkins says they will return Britain to its glorious past - when do they mean?

The 1950s.