[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[cheshunt seagull]

How anyone can believe Reform are for disabled people is beyond me.

Nigel Farage SEND comments 'completely irresponsible' and 'totally wrong', says Phillipson - Politics.co.uk

Nigel Farage’s comments about what he called “behavioural disabilities” will have “sent a shiver down the spines of so many parents”, the education secretary has said. Bridget Phillipson rubbished the comments issued by the Reform UK leader as “completely irresponsible” and “totally wrong”...

www.politics.co.uk

I meet a bloke when I do my daily exercising in a local park who votes Reform. He has a severely autistic son. I

The weirdest part is that Reform voters like MAGA voters are often poorer and or politically illiterate.

It's the Turkeys voting for Christmas party.

They will enact tax cuts for billionaires, slash benefits many of them rely on etc etc and be even more extreme in benefitting the super wealthy at expense of poor than the Cons.

And all because it appealed to their sense of white Britishness, that Farage doesn't like brown people in dinghys, so therefore he's got my vote.

The only thing they are offering is a promise that they will make sure that certain groups in society will suffer more than they do. These groups will usually be vulnerable, unable to fight for themselves and constantly demonised. It's a great trick if they can pull it off as they don't need to improve anyone's lives except the multi-millionaires who fund them as long as they can distract the rest of us with performative cruelty.

 

[hart's shirt]

BBC Political Editor Chris Mason's closing thoughts in his Fireworks for Reform as Labour and Tories write election post-mortems article of today:


"The demolition of the duopoly in Westminster politics has been talked of before.

Think the birth of the Social Democratic Party, or SDP, in 1981.

There was the coalition government of the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats between 2010 and 2015.

In the 2019 European Parliament elections, the Conservatives and Labour only managed to cobble together 23% of the vote between them.

And yet before and after each of these moments, one of the Westminster big two went on to win the next general election, often handsomely.

Indeed, months after those European elections, the Conservatives won a big majority at Westminster.

Two years earlier, the big two in the Commons swept up 82.4% of the vote combined.

So it is wise to bring perspective to this discussion, rather than breathlessness.

But it is wise, too, to acknowledge the sheer scale of this breakthrough by Reform UK.

They went into these elections with the challenge of proving that they could match in votes what the opinion polls had suggested they could.

They comfortably exceeded that high expectation which is why this is a profound moment in our contemporary politics.

Senior Reform figures believe the primary driving motivation behind their surge was that most powerful of human emotions: betrayal.

Betrayal, they argue, from both of Westminster's big beasts.

Well, the pyrotechnics of modern politics continue, and not just in the field used by Reform UK for their celebratory party.

And a final thought: if English politics feels splintered and noisy, remember Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland too.

Next year, there are elections to the Scottish and Welsh parliaments.

Reform are pretty excited about those elections as well.

The Scottish National Party, Plaid Cymru and others will, of course, be in the mix then too.

The widening cacophony of political voices demanding our attention and endorsement could get louder yet."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8478zp085o

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

l'd ask why a vote for local council elections on local issues would increase for a party who's central policy is purely immigration which is a central government issue. I assume less foreigners would mean improved bus services and more bin collections?

I think you know the answer.
The logic is similar to that which drove people in their thousands to elect as Euro MPs,
members of the Brexit party.

Because obviously electing Nigel so he could collect a £200K wedge for rarely turning up in the EU parliament,
was the way to go if you disliked the EU.

I can only assume the half-wits who vote reform simply dislike our own political system.
Trashing parliament and making central government unravel is probably good in their eyes.
Presumably the sooner local affairs are put back in the hands of the largest local landowners the better.
Down with democrasy. Let the local strongman tell the peasants what to do.
Actually, I am beginning to like the sound of that.
Except our largest local landowner is not Bob Geldof, but a shell company based in the Isle of Man.
Oh well

 

[n1 gull]

Your logic suggests that those northern towns are the ones that are electing Reform MPs?

My understanding is that isn't happening and they are getting elected in places like Clacton, where there is minimal immigrat

Reform literally just took control of Lincolnshire, Durham, Staffordshire, Derbyshire, Nottingham, Lancashire councils plus Runcorn MP

All these places unless I'm confused are northern

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Another sunrise and @bazbha who wanted to debate the issues won’t do so, @stoo82! won’t pick up the slack for him and @n1 gull can only chuck around one word insults last heard on the terraces 10 years ago.

Anyone want to have a go at explaining Andrea Jenkins policy speech? Anyone?

Surely @AlbionBro, the former left winger who complains that Kier isn't proper Labour, so has thrown in his lot with Nigel could enlighten us?

My suspicion is that we are "too stupid to understand
It is obvious this country needs change.
Nigel is a breath of fresh air
The tories are just labour in disguise.
Labour are just liberals in disguise
Liberals are just commies in disguise
I don't vote, but......"

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think we're beginning to witness precisely what one of those actually is.

So you can give me a definition then?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Reform literally just took control of Lincolnshire, Durham, Staffordshire, Derbyshire, Nottingham, Lancashire councils plus Runcorn MP

All these places unless I'm confused are northern

No, they are mainly midland except for Durham. Northern starts at South Yorkshire.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You guys voted for Brexit, I not counting anything out.

The question for me is if anyone will be prepared to explain why they voted for them.

Nigel is not a very good politician.
For me that makes him a liability.
For others, who hate all politicians, it makes him a breath of fresh air.

 

[BadFish]

Reform literally just took control of Lincolnshire, Durham, Staffordshire, Derbyshire, Nottingham, Lancashire councils plus Runcorn MP

All these places unless I'm confused are northern

i thought we were talking about immigration?

I posted the make up of Lincolnshire yesterday and it doesn't have high immigration.

Are you saying there is a correlation between high immigration and Reform MPs?

I don't think that was the case before recent council elections but would be interested to see your findings after them and the Runcorn by election.

 

[hart's shirt]

So...where is the North? According to Wiki and the government:

"Northern England, also known as the North of England, North Country or simply the North, is the northern part of England. People have different ideas about which parts of England are in Northern England, but it usually includes the counties of Cheshire, Cumbria, County Durham, Lancashire, Northumberland, Westmorland and Yorkshire, as well as parts of Lincolnshire.

The area roughly spans from the River Trent to the Scottish border in the north. However, people disagree about where the southern border is. Some people say Northern England starts near Birmingham, while some people say it only starts at the River Tees. The government says that Northern England is made up of three statistical regions: the North East, North West and Yorkshire and the Humber."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_England

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Not sure this has been mentioned but there were 6 mayoral elections on Thursday - two were held for the first time and won by Reform. Of the other four, Labour held on their posts in three and lost one to the Conservatives.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

i thought we were talking about immigration?

I posted the make up of Lincolnshire yesterday and it doesn't have high immigration.

Are you saying there is a correlation between high immigration and Reform MPs?

I don't think that was the case before recent council elections but would be interested to see your findings after them and the Runcorn by election.

You probably need to see if immigration is high on the list of local concerns. Making people fear something, even if it isn't a real local issue, is the populist and right wing media way.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Perspective

 

[TomandJerry]

Reform literally just took control of Lincolnshire, Durham, Staffordshire, Derbyshire, Nottingham, Lancashire councils plus Runcorn MP

All these places unless I'm confused are northern

They took Kent.

 

[n1 gull]

No, they are mainly midland except for Durham. Northern starts at South Yorkshire.

Perspective

View attachment 201104

They could of won more if the Government didn't postpone the other elections

 

[Thunder Bolt]

They could of won more if the Government didn't postpone the other elections

HAVE

We will see next year, when the postponed elections happen.

 

[Giraffe]

Sir John Curtice: Reform's sweeping election wins shake Tory and Labour dominance

Though some of the results are still to be reported, Reform are clearly the winners of Thursday's local elections.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Is it PotG?]

So you can give me a definition then?

Yes, yes I can.

Think of a bog roll.....long and thick....the results.

Drop it in the khazi...the small vote %, the amount of protest/tactical voters and crap early performance...hey presto.....a thick, gungy, very flimsy mess.

 

[nevergoagain]

Where would you cut to find the IR35 loss of billions?

The student dependency visas have already been changed haven’t they? Only PhD and government funded research now isn’t it? So only a few thousand a quarter now isn’t it? To attract top people we really need. These are not young undergraduates bringing family. It is brilliant brains.

Which sentences do you think should lead to deportation that currently don’t?

Keeping offenders off the street for longer. The research shows to reduce crime you need to increase the likelihood of being caught rather than lengthen sentences.

What is being cut to fund all the new places and longer sentences?

IR35 - Don't know, I only know it would have cost me a fortune to go inside IR35 and also lost HMRC a bundle. 20% VAT, 25% Corp Tax, 8.75% dividend tax far outweighed the PAYE and Employers NI.

Any sentence that you wouldn't class as a minor offence. Prime example this week 21yr old Ethiopian Tariku Hadgu guilty of punching 2 female police officers and sentenced to 16 weeks, suspended for 1 year.

I'd happily pay more income tax if it was going to fund the right things.

 

[Hugo Rune]

You probably need to see if immigration is high on the list of local concerns. Making people fear something, even if it isn't a real local issue, is the populist and right wing media way.

Reform's policy on net zero (they want to get rid of it and drill more gas and oil in the North Sea) seems to assume an almost imbecilic understanding of the UK energy industry and UK energy consumption from their voters.

As I see it, the security and prosperity of the UK has been held to ransom by the affect of Russia's illegal war on gas supplies across Europe. The long term solution (for anyone who is not a reform supporter) is very clearly not to drill for more gas or even oil as they will eventually run out. Rather, we should be investing in nuclear (as Blair pointed out) and renewables for the future as we gradually ween ourselves off fossil fuels before they run out.

"The UK's North Sea contains proven reserves of 1,654 TWh of gas. This means that if the UK's gas consumption rate remains the same as in 2023, these reserves would be depleted in less than eight years. Even if all probable and possible reserves are extracted, the North Sea gas would still be used up in about 14.2 years". Google

However, Reform always resorts to short term populist policies. It's like a parent giving a child sweets and MacDonalds everyday to pacify them rather than worry about their medium to long term health. Reform only appeal to people like this. They rely on a lack of critical thinking and a world that respects opinion more than fact. Unfortunately, I imagine that perhaps half our population are of this ilk.