[Football] Millwall fans covering themselves in glory again

[Randy McNob]

People getting outraged because others don’t believe in ‘taking the knee’.

Scenes.

i'm more intrigued as to the motivation behind those who deliberately miss the point

 

[Gabbafella]

It's Millwall, I can't believe anyone is surprised by this.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What a ridiculous thing to say.

The Millwall fans who booed have done something that is not illegal.

Abhorent yes. But we can’t just ban people because they think differently or caused offences to others.

You certainly can ban people if they intentionally cause offense to others.

 

[Giraffe]

In fact, things seem to be getting worse.

Please explain how they are getting worse. I’d don’t think this country has ever seen equal rights so clear and legislated for. How are they getting worse?

 

[Sorrel]

Abhorent yes. But we can’t just ban people because they think differently or caused offences to others.

People certainly have been banned for expressions of racist views.

The argument here is between those who think expressing disapproval of the BLM knee is because the people disapprove of the facile way that football has to bend to what they consider a marxist trendy idea that has gone on far too long without thinking - and those who think it is a genuine anti-racist movement.

And the problem with arguing for the first interpretation is: it's Millwall.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

What a ridiculous thing to say.

The Millwall fans who booed have done something that is not illegal.

Abhorent yes. But we can’t just ban people because they think differently or caused offences to others.

A club can choose to ban whoever they want to. It doesn’t have to be illegal.

 

[blue-shifted]

This.

How can the fight against racism be counterproductive it if annoys or upsets or bores people? What people?

Every bitter 'enough is enough' merchant needs to take a good look at himself. How ****ing difficult is it to watch some footballers spending 10 seconds to acknowledge the fight against racism? From the comfort of your own sofa? Go and make a cup of tea if it offends you.

Racists.

'Enough is enough about racism, now'

Racists.

Some, too stupid to even realise they're racists.

We need to be able to have an adult debate about this.

Personally I think there is scope to be somewhere between "Don't think we should carry on with this particular method of showing support for a movement indefinitely" and "racist".

Sir Les amongst others seems to be in agreement.

Personally, I have a collection of random thoughts on this matter.

This shouldn't be turned into a club v club thing. Racism is something for the whole game to eradicate. Millwall as a club have tried as hard as anyone to do this

It's clear there is a large section against this happening though. Is this only racism or is this representative more of a tabloid style anti-wokism. If just racism, this certainly represents the largest percentage sticking their heads above parapets we've seen in decades

This was clearly organised online. We need to find out where and challenge

I think there is an element of applauding a Stalin speech going on with ending the taking the knee here. Ie if you're the first to stop, you know you'll get taken out and shot

Whilst I think anti-racism is a wholly worthwhile message. I can sort of see why someone would take the view that football isn't the place for political and societal messages. Personally I think there are loads of good causes which we could highlight, but choose not to. I think the impending ecological and climate catastrophe is more important, (ok yes i'm white, but racism although terrible isn't going to lead to the collapse of the civilised world in out children's lifetime) but sports people don't make weekly messages about this.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This was the most predictable event of 2020. Just surprised it didn't happen at Burnley unless I've missed it.Who knew people in a shit area of London, surrounded by cash with none of it filtering their way would be resentful about black live matters? I'm not saying it's right but it was obvious (and I said so on the F1 thread before I get accused of aftertiming)

They should have ditched this at the end of last season. It is just a gesture now and a mile away from where this started with Colin Kaepernick.That meant something.

So you.....think it is....right that the Millwall supporters.....booed.....the taking if the knee.

Because it is just a gesture now......

What sort of gesture do you thing it is?

 

[Wozza]

This was the most predictable event of 2020. Just surprised it didn't happen at Burnley unless I've missed it.

No fans allowed at Turf Moor.

 

[GT49er]

You need to stop listening to Farage and other racists

You need to stop thinking that anyone who disagrees with you is inspired by Farage, or that just because they disagree with you that they are racists.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

We need to be able to have an adult debate about this.

Personally I think there is scope to be somewhere between "Don't think we should carry on with this particular method of showing support for a movement indefinitely" and "racist".

Sir Les amongst others seems to be in agreement.

Personally, I have a collection of random thoughts on this matter.

This shouldn't be turned into a club v club thing. Racism is something for the whole game to eradicate. Millwall as a club have tried as hard as anyone to do this

It's clear there is a large section against this happening though. Is this only racism or is this representative more of a tabloid style anti-wokism. If just racism, this certainly represents the largest percentage sticking their heads above parapets we've seen in decades

This was clearly organised online. We need to find out where and challenge

I think there is an element of applauding a Stalin speech going on with ending the taking the knee here. Ie if you're the first to stop, you know you'll get taken out and shot

Whilst I think anti-racism is a wholly worthwhile message. I can sort of see why someone would take the view that football isn't the place for political and societal messages. Personally I think there are loads of good causes which we could highlight, but choose not to. I think the impending ecological and climate catastrophe is more important, (ok yes i'm white, but racism although terrible isn't going to lead to the collapse of the civilised world in out children's lifetime) but sports people don't make weekly messages about this.

BLM and taking the knee has stirred the pot.

Why stop?

The worst outcome if it carries on is it will upset racists, who will have to silently cross themselves in white spremacist defiance.

If it just stops then the likes of Das Reich can just say 'that went well'....

If it antagonises a few racists at Millwall, what's not to like?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Premier League football players believe that there is a problem with racism in this country and have decided they want to highlight it by taking the knee.

It's fairly simple, you either believe that they have the right to highlight it or you don't. For those that don't believe they should do this, I'd be interested to know why you think they shouldn't have that right to highlight what they see as an issue ?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You need to stop thinking that anyone who disagrees with you is inspired by Farage, or that just because they disagree with you that they are racists.

On this issue, though, they are racists. Even if they don't realise

Just take yourself back to the 70s and all that women's lib nonsense. When I started my job in 86 it was standard for the lab tech to have her arse slapped on a daily basis. Embarrassing and shameful in today's light. But if you'd spoken up, as a man, in favour of gender equality, then, you'd have been laughed at.

Old white men, it seems, have an equivalent problem with standing up against racism today, so it seems.

Some old white men, anyway. Not you, I hope.

 

[AlastairWatts]

If the “preaching” stops, what takes its place? The only long term solution is education. Unfortunately I don’t see a whole load of evidence of (white) people wanting to be educated. So, taking the knee is a weekly reminder to most of us to educate ourselves. Until things start to change, we need that reminder. In fact, things seem to be getting worse, so we need a whole load more reminders, too.

I think that you will find that this kind of 'education' works well in North Korea but not in Western democrcaies.

 

[Live by the sea]

You need to stop thinking that anyone who disagrees with you is inspired by Farage, or that just because they disagree with you that they are racists.

Agree - too much reading of the Guardian methinks.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We need to be able to have an adult debate about this.

Personally I think there is scope to be somewhere between "Don't think we should carry on with this particular method of showing support for a movement indefinitely" and "racist".

Sir Les amongst others seems to be in agreement.

Personally, I have a collection of random thoughts on this matter.

This shouldn't be turned into a club v club thing. Racism is something for the whole game to eradicate. Millwall as a club have tried as hard as anyone to do this

It's clear there is a large section against this happening though. Is this only racism or is this representative more of a tabloid style anti-wokism. If just racism, this certainly represents the largest percentage sticking their heads above parapets we've seen in decades

This was clearly organised online. We need to find out where and challenge

I think there is an element of applauding a Stalin speech going on with ending the taking the knee here. Ie if you're the first to stop, you know you'll get taken out and shot

Whilst I think anti-racism is a wholly worthwhile message. I can sort of see why someone would take the view that football isn't the place for political and societal messages. Personally I think there are loads of good causes which we could highlight, but choose not to. I think the impending ecological and climate catastrophe is more important, (ok yes i'm white, but racism although terrible isn't going to lead to the collapse of the civilised world in out children's lifetime) but sports people don't make weekly messages about this.

Discrimination is abhorrent. We can all work together against climate change, but black people cannot change their skin colour or change attitudes from those who haven’t experienced it.
Players wear rainbow laces and t shirts but not one player has come out yet.
Attitudes need to change and reminders in one way or another are needed.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

So you.....think it is....right that the Millwall supporters.....booed.....the taking if the knee.

Because it is just a gesture now......

What sort of gesture do you thing it is?

I know. You know that black live matters is an organisation against racism (which goes without saying is a good thing). I'm not sure someone in Bermondsey sees it that way as the word black sparks 'what about me' I explicitly said I don't think it's right but that is easy for me to say in my middle class house in middle England.

Colin Kaepernick demonstrated against police brutality and racism in America and paid for it by losing his career. He got the 49ers to a superbowl so it's something over and above talent that kept him out of work. Why do you think - pick a random footballer - Mitrovic gets down on one knee? Because he believes in the cause so much he is prepared to make a point or because he is told to by the Premier league and doesn't want to appear out of place? Of course its a gesture.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

No fans allowed at Turf Moor.

Aha. That explains it.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think that you will find that this kind of 'education' works well in North Korea but not in Western democrcaies.

What a ridiculous comment.

 

[worthingseagull123]

You certainly can ban people if they intentionally cause offense to others.

Oh offence. We can’t offend anyone can we. Offending someone is the worst thing in the world.

Jesus where does it stop? swearing offends some people. shall we ban people who chant the referee is a w****r?

If I eat a burger at my seat. It might offend a Vegan. Should I be banned?

People boo when national anthems are played. That can offend. Shall we ban them?

Time for people to grow up I think and ignore Millwall fans who have no class.