[Travel] Mill Road P&R Chaos

[Paulie Gualtieri]

When we first moved to the Amex there was a Transport Manager appointed who was a transport planning professional. He was responsible for the liaison with transport providers, park & ride facilities etc.

There doesn't appear to be anyone filling this role now - maybe it should be reinstated to be able to look into these issues.

If you can remember their name I’m sure they can be contacted at

First name.Surname@cfc.com

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

I have for a long time sought an answer about when the club pays Southern our "travel tax". If Barber is paying Southern (and the bus company) "up front" then there is no motivation for the transporters to improve the services they are delivering. I would assume that there will be Service Level Agreements setting out the services that the transporters will provide eg length and frequency of trains, and penalties if that service is not delivered.

Payments should be made by instalments throughout the season and based on the delivery of the agreed services.

Maybe you would like to take over as CEO? you seem to have all the an swers.

 

[rippleman]

Maybe you would like to take over as CEO? you seem to have all the an swers.

Just very basic understanding of drafting and negotiating contracts. And having a Service Level Agreement is really, really basic when buying in services.

There you go:

Service-level agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[amexer]

I'm failing to to see the "gotcha" that you think you've picked up on.

I'm simply correcting the assertion that the Southampton trains could have been lengthened without any cost. They couldn't.

To lengthen the SOU services you'd have higher track access charges, even if there were the extra coaches available sat doing nothing to do that, which they aren't. That then leads on to shortening services elsewhere to strengthen them elsewhere, which would lead to short forms, which is a KPI, so the DFT wouldn't really allow that. As I said, to do it without cost is inaccurate.

That's before you even get on to the way in which the railway receive income for the match day service, which I believe is a fixed amount per season/year. Why would the DFT (because let's be honest, they really do dictate everything the current railway does) provide extra coaches with no financial benefit when they can use those coaches in an area where it increases passenger numbers?

Or we could get on to the real issue, you don't like the railway or anyone that is associated with it, I assume that's down to years of commuting and the costs involved and the delays/cancellations, or is it a case of when you were a kid a driver didn't wave at you and toot the horn as he went past?

I generally like some of the stuff you post and find some of it funny but you really do turn into a bit of an arse when it comes to the railway, fine have an issue with the companies and DFT but you definitely cross into the realm of abusing the workers as well, most of which are hardworking dedicated people, but no, because they work for the railway you just think they're ****s and that definitely says more about you than it does about them.

OK If it is a fixed amount each season why when original agreement came in was this not based on a minimum number of trains and carriages on matchday

 

[jackalbion]

Just very basic understanding of drafting and negotiating contracts. And having a Service Level Agreement is really, really basic when buying in services.

There you go:

Service-level agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If that was the case, then I expect they have a service level agreement for the Brighton to Lewes line (they don't have a service level agreement either, they just pay for the loss of revenue from the travel scheme).

 

[el punal]

You can’t put an 8 car train on the Southampton service due to the platform sharing at Southampton, it would have to reverse via The Goods Loop which only one depot have knowledge of. The focus is rightly (IMO) on making sure there’s enough carriages on Brighton to Lewes. The lack of foresight scrapping units is ludicrous though, but that was a DFT decision.

I wouldn’t argue with your point as you sound as if you have an intimate knowledge of our rail system!

I am curious though as to why it’s possible that in previous fixtures with Southampton an 8 car train has been provided for the journey - both to and from Brighton?

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I can’t see the train companies having any Albion related service level agreements in place. From the Train company side, why would they, what do they benefit from this? The railways were in place long before the Amex and there’s no real alternatives at scale

I suspect it’s more of a case “that up to 30,000 may travel by train on your network 19 times a season and we want to subsidise this how much would it cost per unit to allow this”?

The unit price is then built into ST’s and match day tickets.

Can’t see any operational SLA in place that the Albion can claim against if the KPI goes amber or seemingly red.

The club had to do all that it could to make a sustainable travel plan to the stadium and getting people on public transport was a tick, to sell this further as credible, you subsidise this.

 

[jackalbion]

I wouldn’t argue with your point as you sound as if you have an intimate knowledge of our rail system!

I am curious though as to why it’s possible that in previous fixtures with Southampton an 8 car train has been provided for the journey - both to and from Brighton?

Would that be as a special? If so thats a one off train which likely you could find a driver from the particular depot to cover that one service. Getting specials out the depot isn't possible these days sadly especially along that section with the stock limits. It may have been because the platform sharing wasn't in place then, Southampton doesn't have much platform capacity due to only having 4 platforms, which have to take about 20 or so trains in an hour, most of which require the full length of the platforms, and to reverse via the goods loop would be conflicting move across the station throat from platform 1 to 4. A lot of the specialist route knowledge for situations like this are disappearing to cut costs. It's strange that they haven't binned the one Southern Service to Eastleigh every day, some of the most useless knowledge available.

 

[Stat Brother]

a I haven’t a cycle
b I M a 64 year old with bad knees and after cycling for 30 years of my life had to give it up due to problems with my cartilages
c I know it wasn’t raining sunday you patronising twat
d I was making the point that cycling from mile oak is not an option.
e I will moan on here along with the other people who had a problem, but being a sanctimonious twat you would see any other point of view
f this is a message board where one gets things off one’s chest….
g. There is no point g

I am geniunely happy you are able to cycle…well done. You must be a very happy human being…sanctimonious but happy.

Good god no.

So as I keep saying for those that can use other means, life is instantly better for the people like you who can't.

Id be amazed if 27,500 of Sundays home crowd were in the same situation as yourself.

Maybe Sunday will be a tipping point and your travelling to and from the stadium will dramatically improve as others say 'god I loves a bit of sanctimony, me, I'm having some of that'.

 

[el punal]

Would that be as a special? If so thats a one off train which likely you could find a driver from the particular depot to cover that one service. Getting specials out the depot isn't possible these days sadly especially along that section with the stock limits. It may have been because the platform sharing wasn't in place then, Southampton doesn't have much platform capacity due to only having 4 platforms, which have to take about 20 or so trains in an hour, most of which require the full length of the platforms, and to reverse via the goods loop would be conflicting move across the station throat from platform 1 to 4. A lot of the specialist route knowledge for situations like this are disappearing to cut costs. It's strange that they haven't binned the one Southern Service to Eastleigh every day, some of the most useless knowledge available.

Thanks for the explanation. I know most of us train going fans rant - sometimes unfairly - about disruption and inconvenience. When it is explained, as you have so succinctly, it makes you wonder why an official from Southern hasn’t bothered to do something similar. Perhaps a printed update in the match day programme, or leaflets at Brighton and Falmer station telling all and sundry why the service goes pear shaped. That would go a long way to quelling our frustrations at the lack of information which abounds on match days.

 

[jackalbion]

Thanks for the explanation. I know most of us train going fans rant - sometimes unfairly - about disruption and inconvenience. When it is explained, as you have so succinctly, it makes you wonder why an official from Southern hasn’t bothered to do something similar. Perhaps a printed update in the match day programme, or leaflets at Brighton and Falmer station telling all and sundry why the service goes pear shaped. That would go a long way to quelling our frustrations at the lack of information which abounds on match days.

Probably because there is so many caveats in the different reasons for everything it would probably be as long the programme. I often try to explain to my mates when we do long away trips, but they get bored halfway through. I think when there are specific things that can be answered, but everyone from every different corner of the network has a million different questions about their specific station. It's interesting and at times funny, to read how people think it all works though, of course no disrespect, because mainly other people aren't as sad as me to memorise the same information as me.

 

[portlock seagull]

MODs, please rename this thread Groundhog Day and put a note in diary to bounce every year.

Nothing has changed. And it’s now 2030…

 

[sagaman]

Surely this a big topic the Fan Advisory Board should be addressing with the Club

Also time Brighton came up with an improved public transport plan and communicated it to the Season Ticket Holders. The Mill Road fiasco and the Car Park C shambles both need sorting.

It's not Groundhog Day, it's worse!

 

[Weststander]

Oh and the racks weren't full at 13:30, but there wasn't too much more room.

Any idea when they do usually fill, minutes before KO?

Would hate to cycle to a game, to find out there’s zero secure storage.

 

[Stat Brother]

Any idea when they do usually fill, minutes before KO?

Would hate to cycle to a game, to find out there’s zero secure storage.

No idea, you definitely would have got parked on one of the open racks before KO on Sunday.
Ive only felt riding was the answer 3 or 4 times this season, train strike day being one of them.

Bikes were all over the place that day, so guessing the 'dont lock your bike here' signs get conveniently ignored when needs be.

As I keep saying hopefully that'll become more of the norm, for everyone's sake.

(Obviously my bike has its own space, so that doesn't effect me)

 

[amexer]

Surely this a big topic the Fan Advisory Board should be addressing with the Club

Also time Brighton came up with an improved public transport plan and communicated it to the Season Ticket Holders. The Mill Road fiasco and the Car Park C shambles both need sorting.

It's not Groundhog Day, it's worse!

How do you contact fANS A.B. Seem to remember they have had one meeting, Is it possible to find what was discussed

 

[Weststander]

No idea, you definitely would have got parked on one of the open racks before KO on Sunday.
Ive only felt riding was the answer 3 or 4 times this season, train strike day being one of them.

Bikes were all over the place that day, so guessing the 'dont lock your bike here' signs get conveniently ignored when needs be.

As I keep saying hopefully that'll become more of the norm, for everyone's sake.

(Obviously my bike has its own space, so that doesn't effect me)

Did you take your quality road bike?

I’ve got a year old Trek hybrid which cost well north of £1k, I love it. Obviously I’d take rated locks, but I’d hate a light fingered cnt to get their hands on it.

 

[Stat Brother]

Did you take your quality road bike?

I’ve got a year old Trek hybrid which cost well north of £1k, I love it. Obviously I’d take rated locks, but I’d hate a light fingered cnt to get their hands on it.

No none of them!!

TBH I can't think of too many safer places in Sussex.
Stewards and CCTV all around.
Not to mention you'd instantly look suspicious trying to nick a bike any time before the 80 minute mark!!!!

 

[drew]

I imagine @Stat Brother is composing a reply right now, but cycling would surely be the quickest way of getting to and from the game, wouldn't it?

It must be something like 7-8 miles from Mile Oak to the Amex, and unlike buses, trains and the Park & Ride - you are the master of your own destiny for the whole journey. You'll know exactly how long it will take so can leave home to arrive just before kick-off and, as soon as the game ends, you'll be on your way and back home long before anyone making the same journey on any other kind of transport.

Cycling isn't for everyone, granted, and I completely understand that cycling to a game in shitty weather is no fun at all. But, taking the weather out of the equation, I think it would be the quickest way to get to a game from where you are.

Even from Worthing, cycling may well be quicker than any other method of transport. Driving and using The Bridge on Sunday, I got home around 6pm - two hours after the game finished. I'm sure I could have ridden home in less time than that.

That seems to ignore the fact that a lot of fans don't just turn up watch the game and bugger off. A fair few like to enjoy a few pints before the game, maybe half time and even after. They shouldn't then be getting on a bike to cycle home. Now someone is bound to suggest you don't need to drink and they'd be right but I suspect that a stone cold sober 27500 home fans wouldn't generate much of an atmosphere.

As for the main thread title, for the first few years at the Amex, we always used it and had a designated driver. We would always leave just after the final whistle from WSU and get to the queue when it was about 10/20m from the bottom of the steps. We would normally be back at Mill Road 30 minutes later at the most. There would be a steady stream of buses turning up and you would continually shuffle forward That was of course with the bendy buses. For the few years we mostly travel by train and enjoy a drink in Lewes but due to various reasons I was the only one from our group travelling down so I drove. On Saturday I was standing on the same position on the steps for getting on for an hour waiting for buses back to Mill Rd. (The journey to the Amex from Mill Road was not a problem)

There was obviously an issue and I hope the club are looking into it. That said, I certainly won't be using the P & R anytime in the near future (well at least until 31st Dec. Lol)

 

[Weststander]

That seems to ignore the fact that a lot of fans don't just turn up watch the game and bugger off. A fair few like to enjoy a few pints before the game, maybe half time and even after. They shouldn't then be getting on a bike to cycle home. Now someone is bound to suggest you don't need to drink and they'd be right but I suspect that a stone cold sober 27500 home fans wouldn't generate much of an atmosphere.

As for the main thread title, for the first few years at the Amex, we always used it and had a designated driver. We would always leave just after the final whistle from WSU and get to the queue when it was about 10/20m from the bottom of the steps. We would normally be back at Mill Road 30 minutes later at the most. There would be a steady stream of buses turning up and you would continually shuffle forward That was of course with the bendy buses. For the few years we mostly travel by train and enjoy a drink in Lewes but due to various reasons I was the only one from our group travelling down so I drove. On Saturday I was standing on the same position on the steps for getting on for an hour waiting for buses back to Mill Rd. (The journey to the Amex from Mill Road was not a problem)

There was obviously an issue and I hope the club are looking into it. That said, I certainly won't be using the P & R anytime in the near future (well at least until 31st Dec. Lol)

What time did you arrive at Mill Road on Sunday and did you queue at the top or bottom?

I’d firmly advise not arriving at the top within 75 / 80 minutes of KO. For recent games the queue snakes ever eastward, with just a handful of supporters allowed on each rare visit by a packed bus.

Completely going against what stewards said in the past, that they keep half the buses empty for the top of the hill folk.