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[Politics] Labour has suspended former leader Jeremy Corbyn



jonny.rainbow

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2005
6,669
Starmer’s strongest moves have come not against the opposition but from managing out the undesirables in his own party. Slow; steady and assured progress. “Get with the program or get out”.

Exactly what I want from government in peace time, Boring, steady, centre ground.

It’s a good job Atlee’s peace time government didn’t settle for a boring, steady, centre ground agenda, otherwise we’d never have benefitted from the NHS, National Insurance, increased council house building and numerous other left wing initiatives.
 




Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
11,104
Starmer’s strongest moves have come not against the opposition but from managing out the undesirables in his own party. Slow; steady and assured progress. “Get with the program or get out”.

Exactly what I want from government in peace time, Boring, steady, centre ground.

My concern is that Politics has moved so far to the right over the past Decade that the "centre-ground" is starting to look a lot more like old school centre-right.

That isn't the position we need, with high inflation, broken public services and raging wealth inequality.

I'm fearful that Labour get in and adopt a Cameron/Osborne approach to the economy.
 


borat

Well-known member
Jul 16, 2003
513
I think Corbyn is a genuine person but there is no longer an appetite for a real socialist government. For his first few years Blairs government was a good conservative government. Only way to win an election is to do what Blair did and take middle ground which Starmer will do.
I think the majority of the manifesto were popular. Which ones might be considered extreme Rail and Energy Nationalisation?

Also in there was the setting up of a national pharmaceutical wing whereby the country develops its own medicines and vaccines rather than leave it to price gouging big pharma.

Doesnt sound so horrendous
 


jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
11,309
I think the majority of the manifesto were popular. Which ones might be considered extreme Rail and Energy Nationalisation?

Also in there was the setting up of a national pharmaceutical wing whereby the country develops its own medicines and vaccines rather than leave it to price gouging big pharma.

Doesnt sound so horrendous
There were some hugely unpopular views Corbyn held which they didn’t exactly advertise in the manifesto…
 


Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
65,344
Withdean area
Corbyn is too good for the majority of this current Labour Party. Hes actually a decent and honest human being who campaigns and cares for those less fortunate and not just the wealthiest.

Horrible the way that as an anti-racist he was smeared as anti-semitic. Devalues actual instances of AS.

Unfortunately expressing the fact that Israel is an Apartheid state or expressing sympathies with Palestinian people is not allowed. Shameful.
Why were Jews with nothing to do with Israel mentioned, Jewish Labour MP's the victims of a new tidal wave of abuse, they also had to have overt and secret security when attending a Labour Party conference?

Disgusting times. The party that led the way in anti-racism in short time had allowed racist scum to join and stay, whilst comments about Jewry were prevalent.
 




BenGarfield

Active member
Feb 22, 2019
317
crawley
Starmer is being as bullish as I hoped ridding the party of the remnants of Momentum. I’ll be voting Labour regardless, but Starmer’s Labour is what I want and the further Corbyn’s crew are away from his government the better.
The Labour Party Manifesto of 2017, when Labour achieved its biggest vote since 1945, was widely popular according to opinion polls, and not just to Labour voters - which paticular parts of it did you find too far left and objectionable?
 


Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
24,220
As was (almost) said earlier.
Ask the overwhelming majority of UK Jews.
Would you dismiss the experience of racism & abuse of any other community so casually?
Here we go again. The press mantra. And it's no wonder the Jewish community is fearful when they themselves are used as a political football. And they were, this became less about racism and more about putting the boot into the Labour Party.

So let me spell out a simple position, which I believe to be the position of most, including those who campaign on Palestine issues. But there will be some, who are genuinely racist towards the Jews (the term anti-Semitic is a bit weak if you ask me) who don't agree. There is no place for such people.

It is wrong to discriminate against Jewish people. It is racist. The Jews are a race. Probably the most persecuted in history. It still remains a thing of wonder how they have kept their identity throughout all this. No place for racism.

There is a distinction between Jewish folk and the actions of the Israeli government. In the same way as their is between British and the actions of theirs. If I rage against the policies of the British government and it's military strategy I am not 'anti-British'

The Labour Party has expelled anti-Semites. Good, so they should. Should have done it a long time ago. As indeed should other political groups. They have also demonised those who actively campaign against the Israeli government's policies outwith its borders.

The press have lapped it up and all sensible discourse gets thrown out the window. The Labour Party should reflect on how a small number of anti-Semites were allowed to exists within their ranks for so long. And the press should also reflect on their motives. I hold hope for the first reflection and not the second.
 


heathgate

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 13, 2015
3,587
My concern is that Politics has moved so far to the right over the past Decade that the "centre-ground" is starting to look a lot more like old school centre-right.

That isn't the position we need, with high inflation, broken public services and raging wealth inequality.

I'm fearful that Labour get in and adopt a Cameron/Osborne approach to the economy.
No, Labour will do what every Labour govt has ever done,... borrow, borrow, spend, borrow some more.
 




Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
11,104
There were some hugely unpopular views Corbyn held which they didn’t exactly advertise in the manifesto…
I hate this shit.
How about we start speculating on the unpleasant views held by Boris Johnson?

Sure people were told who to hate more.
And they picked Corbyn.

The electorate's view on Corbyn has nothing to do with anti-semitism - it's down to who they have been manipulated to despise.

The manifesto of any prospective government SHOULD BE the only thing that matters in a general election.
We are where we are because it isn't.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,404
Goldstone
Corbyn's even-handed approach to Semites and anti-Semites is the problem. Defending the right to criticise Israel is one thing, but defending the right of anti-Semites to criticize Israel is careless. Declaring Israel has a right to exist, then sitting on a platform with a member of an organization that wants to push the Jews into the sea is, at best, more carelessness.

And criticising the BBC for saying that Israel has a right to exist isn't a great look. Israel have no right to occupy Palestine, but Corbyn is so tunnel-visioned on that that he's antisemitic.
 


Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
11,104
Here we go again. The press mantra. And it's no wonder the Jewish community is fearful when they themselves are used as a political football. And they were, this became less about racism and more about putting the boot into the Labour Party.

So let me spell out a simple position, which I believe to be the position of most, including those who campaign on Palestine issues. But there will be some, who are genuinely racist towards the Jews (the term anti-Semitic is a bit weak if you ask me) who don't agree. There is no place for such people.

It is wrong to discriminate against Jewish people. It is racist. The Jews are a race. Probably the most persecuted in history. It still remains a thing of wonder how they have kept their identity throughout all this. No place for racism.

There is a distinction between Jewish folk and the actions of the Israeli government. In the same way as their is between British and the actions of theirs. If I rage against the policies of the British government and it's military strategy I am not 'anti-British'

The Labour Party has expelled anti-Semites. Good, so they should. Should have done it a long time ago. As indeed should other political groups. They have also demonised those who actively campaign against the Israeli government's policies outwith its borders.

The press have lapped it up and all sensible discourse gets thrown out the window. The Labour Party should reflect on how a small number of anti-Semites were allowed to exists within their ranks for so long. And the press should also reflect on their motives. I hold hope for the first reflection and not the second.
Good job there are no anti-semites in the Tory party isn't it?
 




BenGarfield

Active member
Feb 22, 2019
317
crawley
You're sealioning. How about a career?
He made it mainstream. Ignored, enabled & behind the scenes, encouraged. My local party oozed with antisemitism.
Just for starters.

Interesting - can you give a specific example of your local party oozing with anti-semitism? Did you report this to labour party HQ who were willing to seize on any examples?
 




BenGarfield

Active member
Feb 22, 2019
317
crawley
Jeremy Corbyn was never a Prime Minister in waiting. At best he represented a rather large lobbying group and at worst a cult. Ironically I think both he and Johnson will both be considered 'political aberrations' one day - for totally different reasons of course....
Isnt that what political parties are supposed to be?
 










jackalbion

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2011
4,337
Things weren’t exactly booming, in fairness, when Corbyn had his shot. If he is a bastion of the far left agenda, why couldn’t he win then - and why would he win now?

People simply don’t want it. And the left can complain about “gammons”, old people, rich people - it makes no difference. They can complain about Tory lies (true), they can talk about the state of the NHS (true) but none of it matters. The electorate - normal people - keep decisively proving they don’t want that approach to government.
People now simply don't want it, but those people who are voting for it, are young now and will become the main demographic in the future then we shall see. 2017 was the biggest swing in any election and that was in favour of Corbyn, so there was at least some appetite. Labour should be a broad church of different ideas not childish factionalism, and thats where I lose interest and stop caring about party politics. As all it looks to me now is 'look we won' now actually do something that helps people, not just spend the time walking around talking about how your mate is now treasurer of the CLP. The Labour right has some very dodgy and some out right racist people but the light has rarely been shined on them, but they still are active within the party.
 






amexer

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2011
6,353
As I said it is only middle ground that will get a party elected these days. Not for me but a great pity that those with real left wing views no longer have anybody to vote for.
 


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