Jaywick -Christmas on Benefits

[alfredmizen]

I have the same issue with sprouts.

Do.you have "issues" after.eating them ?

 

[Ernest]

I got on one last WEEK so NERR.

Shame it was going the WRONG way though

 

[El Presidente]

Do.you have "issues" after.eating them ?

In relation to releasing greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere.................yes.

 

[yxee]

Food stamps seem a good idea in theory, but in practice they get traded for real money which is then used to buy booze and smack.

There's a further problem that not all shops accept stamps, and those that do exploit the situation by charging higher prices as they have a captive market.

The problem of how to get people out of poverty (and to be fair to both Blair and Cameron they at least tried, but IMO failed) is a huge challenge, and needs a co-ordinated approach from central & local government, as well as agencies that know what they are dealing with.

Once self interested politicians get involved, it becomes a point scoring exercise combined with tokenism like so many other social issues today.

Yes, very tricky. I guess you can print id on each stamp so it can only be redeemed by the owner, compensate stores fully for taking them... But someone will always find a way to cheat the system.

I don't mind people being in relative poverty, as bad as it sounds some people will always be like that through poor life choices and it's not the government's job to compensate them for their own mistakes, but the fact that they seem to have no opportunity to pull themselves out is what really bugs me. Everyone deserves a chance, if they want to change, to work hard and improve their circumstances. That seems like a more reasonable and realistic goal, not least because many more taxpayers will buy into that eg by accepting tax rises on this basis.

 

[Swillis]

Surely an advert for giving out food stamps, rather than money? How on earth is a town like that ever expected to regenerate when the locals have this dependency?

Also this is why I oppose the minimum wage. It's a simple fact that businesses won't move in here because it's not viable employing a workforce of addicts and excons at £8/hr when you can get basically anyone else. Surely it's better for everyone that they get paid SOMETHING for a days work, rather than nothing at all? If you get 30p/hour in prison then why not say £2/hr in this place, which looks like a halfway house, I'm sure rents are not high. And don't take away their benifits when they start work, so they actually have an incentive to work. Not rocket science, just a little pragmatic.

I pray to God I hope you are and I'm not even religious.

 

[Cian]

Yes, very tricky. I guess you can print id on each stamp so it can only be redeemed by the owner, compensate stores fully for taking them... But someone will always find a way to cheat the system.

Many US states have "EBT" - prepaid debit cards for this purpose

There will always be some retailers that will willingly cheat the system. They will always get enough cash purchasers of allowed items to run those through as the EBT purchases and let people get booze and smokes on EBT. And yes, they are also the retailers that charge the most for food.

 

[Gwylan]

Also this is why I oppose the minimum wage. It's a simple fact that businesses won't move in here because it's not viable employing a workforce of addicts and excons at £8/hr when you can get basically anyone else. Surely it's better for everyone that they get paid SOMETHING for a days work, rather than nothing at all?

The problem with abolishing minimum wage is that you couldn't just do it for Jaywick, it would have to be universal and while employers may welcome it, employees would still have costs to meet - rent mainly but other costs too.

This means that a cut in minimum wage would have to be subsidised by the state.
There are about 3m on minimum wage in the UK - if their rate was by £6 an hour, that's by £240 a week. If that were all replaced by housing benefit it would mean the taxpayer coughing up an additional £4 billion a year - the government is trying to reduce public spending not increase it.

 

[crookie]

Food stamps seem a good idea in theory, but in practice they get traded for real money which is then used to buy booze and smack.

There's a further problem that not all shops accept stamps, and those that do exploit the situation by charging higher prices as they have a captive market.

The problem of how to get people out of poverty (and to be fair to both Blair and Cameron they at least tried, but IMO failed) is a huge challenge, and needs a co-ordinated approach from central & local government, as well as agencies that know what they are dealing with.

Once self interested politicians get involved, it becomes a point scoring exercise combined with tokenism like so many other social issues today.

No easy answers and probably not much of a vote winner, so politicians feel it's not worth the political capital expended. Very sad that these people seem essentially to be left to rot. I haven't watched the programme though.

 

[alfredmizen]

The problem with abolishing minimum wage is that you couldn't just do it for Jaywick, it would have to be universal and while employers may welcome it, employees would still have costs to meet - rent mainly but other costs too.

This means that a cut in minimum wage would have to be subsidised by the state.
There are about 3m on minimum wage in the UK - if their rate was by £6 an hour, that's by £240 a week. If that were all replaced by housing benefit it would mean the taxpayer coughing up an additional £4 billion a year - the government is trying to reduce public spending not increase it.

The problem with abolishing the minimum wage is that would also be a nasty , shit thing to do , if a business can't make money paying somebody 6.80 an hour or whatever it is then they shouldn't be in business.

 

[Stat Brother]

To be fair, I'm not sure I'd be overly keen on spending Christmas day with an alcoholic ex-con with mental problems, who's just been released from prison after attacking somebody with a hammer. But it was sad.

Had worse.

 

[Gwylan]

The problem with abolishing the minimum wage is that would also be a nasty , shit thing to do , if a business can't make money paying somebody 6.80 an hour or whatever it is then they shouldn't be in business.

Quite.

Personally, I think that it should be raised higher. It would provide more dignity for the employees and cut the government's benefit bill

 

[alfredmizen]

Quite.

Personally, I think that it should be raised higher. It would provide more dignity for the employees and cut the government's benefit bill

Is think this is the 2nd time ?

 

[yxee]

I pray to God I hope you are and I'm not even religious.

Not sure what is meant here?

The problem with abolishing the minimum wage is that would also be a nasty , shit thing to do , if a business can't make money paying somebody 6.80 an hour or whatever it is then they shouldn't be in business.

Then they will go out of business and all their workers will be unemployed. Is that really preferable?

I'm thinking about it from an income inequality perspective. Would you rather have 10 people employed for £5/hour or 5 people employed for £10/hour (and working their socks off), and 5 people unemployed? Because I think setting the minimum wage at £10/hour will cause that. I personally think the former is much better.

It sounds awful, and people have an instant revulsion to the idea, but what part of the logic is wrong?

 

[Swillis]

Not sure what is meant here?



Then they will go out of business and all their workers will be unemployed. Is that really preferable?

I'm thinking about it from an income inequality perspective. Would you rather have 10 people employed for £5/hour or 5 people employed for £10/hour (and working their socks off), and 5 people unemployed? Because I think setting the minimum wage at £10/hour will cause that. I personally think the former is much better.

It sounds awful, and people have an instant revulsion to the idea, but what part of the logic is wrong?

Apologies, I was meant to write- I pray to God you are joking and I'm not even religious.

Just seen the response to Alfred, out of interest I would love to know your hourly rate. I bets its not minimum wage so would not affect you.

 

[yxee]

Apologies, I was meant to write- I pray to God you are joking and I'm not even religious.

Just seen the response to Alfred, out of interest I would love to know your hourly rate. I bets its not minimum wage so would not affect you.

Obviously I am not going to write that. But I am interested in any criticism of my stance, since I'm not massively keen on the conclusion either...

 

[Swillis]

Obviously I am not going to write that. But I am interested in any criticism of my stance, since I'm not massively keen on the conclusion either...

I don't think any business would take druggies/alcoholics on even if they could get them for free.
Dropping/abolishing the minimum wage would only serve to let big business take advantage. Not to mention it would widen the gap between the haves and the have nots, a gap that is far to wise as it is.