James Mclean - Sunderland refused to wear shirt with poppy on

[tezz79]

I don't like many things about our country, should I leave?

Nobody said he should leave, just show a bit of respect for the nation you're making a living in & those that have fought/died defending the nation which HE chose to be a part of !

I couldn't give a shit tbh as I think he's just trying to go against the grain just for the sake of it, I doubt he has very strong views on the matter if the truth be told.
Wouldn't have hurt him to wear it but f ck him ........who cares ?
Just a shame he earns a nice living here if he cant respect our fallen that have made the ultimate sacrifice in making lifestyles such as his own possible

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Just a shame he earns a nice living here if he cant respect our fallen that have made the ultimate sacrifice in making lifestyles such as his own possible

Should I respect the fallen in Germany then? And if so how?

 

[tezz79]

Should I respect the fallen in Germany then? And if so how?

If you didn't respect them then would you be going against general public opinion ?
If your views were so different to that of the general public on past conflicts & what you thought was so wrong they thought was a reason to be recognised & marked annually then would you have gone there in the first place ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If you didn't respect them then would you be going against general public opinion ?
If your views were so different to that of the general public on past conflicts & what you thought was so wrong they thought was a reason to be recognised & marked annually then would you have gone there in the first place ?

You're missing my point.

 

[tezz79]

If you're wereable to ignore their views so you could take money for entertaining them week in week out then what would that make you ?
A hypocrite at the very least I'd say

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If you're wereable to ignore their views so you could take money for entertaining them week in week out then what would that make you ?
A hypocrite at the very least I'd say

Er, what? What is it you're trying to say?

 

[tezz79]

Er, what? What is it you're trying to say?

Exactly what I did say.

If Germany were proud (as a nation) on their past conflicts and saw them as proud reasons to be annually marked then would you go out of your way to seek employment there entertaining them ?
Don't take offence, my whole point is that I doubted you would have

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

Exactly what I did say.

If Germany were proud (as a nation) on their past conflicts and saw them as proud reasons to be annually marked then would you go out of your way to seek employment there entertaining them ?
Don't take offence, my whole point is that I doubted you would have

I dont think Remembrance day is about being proud of being involved in the two biggest wars the world has ever known, it's about showing respect to those that fought, lost their lives, and are still fighting in places around the world. Two very different things!

 

[salty seagull]

The next time you are doing something special, maybe a holiday, your childs birthday, even a visit to the Amex, spare a thought for those young lads that died in agony in a rat-infested trench, or on a cold muddy field in France. Maybe swallowed up by icy seas or burning in a shot-down plane. Many of these men left behind families and many weren`t even old enough to have experienced the magic of fatherhood.These men were fighting a common evil, so f*** McLean and his freedom of choice. We must always remember them.

 

[tezz79]

I dont think Remembrance day is about being proud of being involved in the two biggest wars the world has ever known, it's about showing respect to those that fought, lost their lives, and are still fighting in places around the world. Two very different things!

Then why ask he should respect Germany's fallen then ? I was not the one who brought germany into it was i ?
also i do think there is a certain amount of pride involved but that is just my opinion.

 

[tezz79]

The next time you are doing something special, maybe a holiday, your childs birthday, even a visit to the Amex, spare a thought for those young lads that died in agony in a rat-infested trench, or on a cold muddy field in France. Maybe swallowed up by icy seas or burning in a shot-down plane. Many of these men left behind families and many weren`t even old enough to have experienced the magic of fatherhood.These men were fighting a common evil, so f*** McLean and his freedom of choice. We must always remember them.

Too right !!

 

[Kumquat]

There was an interesting interview on Andrew Marr's programme this morning with an Army commander who I thought conducted himself very well in response to the very question of what the poppy is meant to represent. Marr didn't mention Ireland, I don't think, but did ask the more recent obvious example of Afghanistan. Pointing out that people almost universally accept that the second world war was a just war, Marr asked if the army would see the Afghanistan war in the same light. The guy responded saying he thought it had tackled a real threat and that it had prevented attacks on the UK.

Personally I've always identified the poppy with the second world war. I do feel uncomfortable with its links to recent wars because I don't see them as just. This does not mean I don't respect the servicemen involved in those wars, and not least their families, who have to deal with the same emotions, whatever the war. However, I think people like McClean have every right to express their right not to wear the poppy if they feel that their memories of the British Army correlate with injustice. We cannot pretend that every war we thought has been just and so consequently there will be people whose memories of the British Army are less savoury. To me, that is what part of being a tolerant and civilised nation means. I, for one, have worn my poppy with pride in memory of the brave people who protected our freedom, but at the same time I respect those who don't want to celebrate the memory of men who for them mean pain and not pride.

 

[upthealbion1970]

The next time you are doing something special, maybe a holiday, your childs birthday, even a visit to the Amex, spare a thought for those young lads that died in agony in a rat-infested trench, or on a cold muddy field in France. Maybe swallowed up by icy seas or burning in a shot-down plane. Many of these men left behind families and many weren`t even old enough to have experienced the magic of fatherhood.These men were fighting a common evil, so f*** McLean and his freedom of choice. We must always remember them.

Precisely this. Incidentally my under 10 team had 2 mins silence at half time in the 1st game this morning, and every one of the 22 kids from both teams and all of the parents observed it impeccably despite their various cultures and beliefs.

 

[tezz79]

There was an interesting interview on Andrew Marr's programme this morning with an Army commander who I thought conducted himself very well in response to the very question of what the poppy is meant to represent. Marr didn't mention Ireland, I don't think, but did ask the more recent obvious example of Afghanistan. Pointing out that people almost universally accept that the second world war was a just war, Marr asked if the army would see the Afghanistan war in the same light. The guy responded saying he thought it had tackled a real threat and that it had prevented attacks on the UK.

Personally I've always identified the poppy with the second world war. I do feel uncomfortable with its links to recent wars because I don't see them as just. This does not mean I don't respect the servicemen involved in those wars, and not least their families, who have to deal with the same emotions, whatever the war. However, I think people like McClean have every right to express their right not to wear the poppy if they feel that their memories of the British Army correlate with injustice. We cannot pretend that every war we thought has been just and so consequently there will be people whose memories of the British Army are less savoury. To me, that is what part of being a tolerant and civilised nation means. I, for one, have worn my poppy with pride in memory of the brave people who protected our freedom, but at the same time I respect those who don't want to celebrate the memory of men who for them mean pain and not pride.

Yeah that's all well & good & I agree with nearly all of that but i still have views on people that would choose to be in the public eye (for money) of a nation they apparently feel has done such bad things that they can't honour it's dead which allowed them the chance to be in such a position in the 1st place.

Yeah it's up to him but I've got every right to think he's a cock aswell

 

[Kumquat]

Yeah that's all well & good & I agree with nearly all of that but i still have views on people that would choose to be in the public eye (for money) of a nation they apparently feel has done such bad things that they can't honour it's dead which allowed them the chance to be in such a position in the 1st place.

Yeah it's up to him but I've got every right to think he's a cock aswell

He's certainly got a reputation for being one. I don't disagree. But whether or not he's using this issue to be controversial or not (some people think he is, i don't know) catholic people in Ireland have every right to refuse to wear the poppy. If their family's memory of the British army is internment then I can understand that. Personally I think it's too much of an issue to just dismiss someone as a cock.

 

[bluenitsuj]

If everyone got made to wear one, it would be meaningless. He chose not to wear one, fair enough.

This. To many people these days jumping on everyone and everything. Pretty pathetic.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Exactly what I did say.

If Germany were proud (as a nation) on their past conflicts and saw them as proud reasons to be annually marked then would you go out of your way to seek employment there entertaining them ?
Don't take offence, my whole point is that I doubted you would have

My post was a response to your idea that Mclean should respect the war dead of the country he has chosen to move to and make a living in. I do not feel he has to do this. The German's remember their war dead; not all of them were crazy nazis and some were innocently (well, duped into) defending their nation in the same was as our soldiers were. But I do not feel compelled to make a point of showing my respect for them and I do not think Mclean should either.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I dont think Remembrance day is about being proud of being involved in the two biggest wars the world has ever known, it's about showing respect to those that fought, lost their lives, and are still fighting in places around the world. Two very different things!

This.

 

[salty seagull]

Yeah that's all well & good & I agree with nearly all of that but i still have views on people that would choose to be in the public eye (for money) of a nation they apparently feel has done such bad things that they can't honour it's dead which allowed them the chance to be in such a position in the 1st place.

Yeah it's up to him but I've got every right to think he's a cock aswell

Spot on! I was just going to post something almost identical but you saved me the bother.

 

[tezz79]

There was an interesting interview on Andrew Marr's programme this morning with an Army commander who I thought conducted himself very well in response to the very question of what the poppy is meant to represent. Marr didn't mention Ireland, I don't think, but did ask the more recent obvious example of Afghanistan. Pointing out that people almost universally accept that the second world war was a just war, Marr asked if the army would see the Afghanistan war in the same light. The guy responded saying he thought it had tackled a real threat and that it had prevented attacks on the UK.

Personally I've always identified the poppy with the second world war. I do feel uncomfortable with its links to recent wars because I don't see them as just. This does not mean I don't respect the servicemen involved in those wars, and not least their families, who have to deal with the same emotions, whatever the war. However, I think people like McClean have every right to express their right not to wear the poppy if they feel that their memories of the British Army correlate with injustice. We cannot pretend that every war we thought has been just and so consequently there will be people whose memories of the British Army are less savoury. To me, that is what part of being a tolerant and civilised nation means. I, for one, have worn my poppy with pride in memory of the brave people who protected our freedom, but at the same time I respect those who don't want to celebrate the memory of men who for them mean pain and not pride.

Why would I not get your respect for feeling pain & pride ?
If the poppy represents ww2 (for you) then would you "celebrate the memory" of our fallen if we were on the side the was not deemed as "just" ?
I don't think you would & the reason would be because you we're not proud of their/our stance had we been on the opposite side