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Is Keir really credible?

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Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,293
I saw a bit of politics live at lunchtime and Jo Coburn seemed to be ignoring the point the labour chap was making about their policy. He said that they would reverse top rate tax cut and put money into nurses and nhs. She interrupted and said “so you are not paying off the deficit then” to which he calmly responded “it will help to achieve growth. We know lots of long term sick people are out of the labour force so we need to help them back. Funding more support for them will grow the workforce and reduce the benefit needs” she again interrupted almost laughing “but you are not paying the deficit, how will you do that” and he further explained again. It was a very odd exchange when he clearly explained why money on the nhs is investing in the population rather than money for the richest.

I always wonder what people think happens when money is spent on nurses. The vast majority goes in their wages. Where do the wages go? Back into the economy. They will pay NI and income tax so it has not all gone out in the first place and then they put more money into local areas by spending it.

It is all very odd when media try to say that they are doing nothing different because labour are not simply trying to reduce the deficit with taxes. It is smart uses of taxes which can lead to growth.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
52,313
Faversham
I heard Powell -- saying it was about regime change -- and Straw saying it was about WMD in 45 minutes. I heard Blix, stating he hadn't found anything, and wanted more time for inspections. I heard Robin Cook. I've also seen the devastation it caused the Middle East ever since.
Despite all that, Blair remains the best PM I've witnessed. And, back on topic, SKS speech buoyant and bolder.

Indeed. Nuance. The material that informs the bottom line. And the material that can also be cherry picked to create a perverse narrative.

I suspect our views are very similar. Robin Cook had the most accurate spyglass into the future but at the time the imperative of the present took precedence.

Ironically the lukewarm Obama era and the insane Trump era may have broken the weepy nostalgic subservience we once had when dealing with the whims of our American masters.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
52,313
Faversham
I saw a bit of politics live at lunchtime and Jo Coburn seemed to be ignoring the point the labour chap was making about their policy. He said that they would reverse top rate tax cut and put money into nurses and nhs. She interrupted and said “so you are not paying off the deficit then” to which he calmly responded “it will help to achieve growth. We know lots of long term sick people are out of the labour force so we need to help them back. Funding more support for them will grow the workforce and reduce the benefit needs” she again interrupted almost laughing “but you are not paying the deficit, how will you do that” and he further explained again. It was a very odd exchange when he clearly explained why money on the nhs is investing in the population rather than money for the richest.

I always wonder what people think happens when money is spent on nurses. The vast majority goes in their wages. Where do the wages go? Back into the economy. They will pay NI and income tax so it has not all gone out in the first place and then they put more money into local areas by spending it.

It is all very odd when media try to say that they are doing nothing different because labour are not simply trying to reduce the deficit with taxes. It is smart uses of taxes which can lead to growth.

There is still an element in the media that does interviews by playing devil's advocate. It isn't as grotesque as it once was (but there again I don't watch channel 5 or GB News). I accept that journalism is about asking awkward questions. But if the journalist isn't listening to the reply, or brings their bias into the arena, it's game over.

I could never be a politician. I am rude enough as it is to my own work colleagues when they venture into the realms of ****wittery. A hostile or thick journalist would soon find themselves on the receiving end of wave of c-bombs, or worse, and the lifespan of my political career would rival that of the Mayfly.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,505
Agreed. You'll only reach the goal -- clean energy by 2030 (a welcome, bold mission) -- through a nationalised industry. To add to your points, he also indicated that the plan was to partner with business so -- until proved otherwise -- I'll assume the plan isn't for the state to do all of this.

you need focused strategy, policy and a lot of capital. the government need to focus on policy, getting the planning done fast, let industry focus on the build out, let finance focus on the funding.
 


Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
7,423
you need focused strategy, policy and a lot of capital. the government need to focus on policy, getting the planning done fast, let industry focus on the build out, let finance focus on the funding.

You do need a lot of capital.

But given renewable energy is 9 times cheaper than the energy we currently pay for, i'd say this a more profitable investment than allowing the very rich to keep more of their money.

Oh and the fossil fuel industry won't invest significantly in renewables. It was a forlorn hope thus far and will continue to be so. Why would they? It's 9 times cheaper than the product they currently sell.
 






beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,505
I saw a bit of politics live at lunchtime and Jo Coburn seemed to be ignoring the point the labour chap was making about their policy. He said that they would reverse top rate tax cut and put money into nurses and nhs. She interrupted and said “so you are not paying off the deficit then” to which he calmly responded “it will help to achieve growth. We know lots of long term sick people are out of the labour force so we need to help them back. Funding more support for them will grow the workforce and reduce the benefit needs” she again interrupted almost laughing “but you are not paying the deficit, how will you do that” and he further explained again. It was a very odd exchange when he clearly explained why money on the nhs is investing in the population rather than money for the richest.

I always wonder what people think happens when money is spent on nurses. The vast majority goes in their wages. Where do the wages go? Back into the economy. They will pay NI and income tax so it has not all gone out in the first place and then they put more money into local areas by spending it.

It is all very odd when media try to say that they are doing nothing different because labour are not simply trying to reduce the deficit with taxes. It is smart uses of taxes which can lead to growth.

you're right about money spent on nurses going into the economy. however point about deficit, badly put, is valid. the current budget has an amount of money raised from 45% that is being spent. the tax cut requires some debt to cover it, a budget deficit, because there is no associated spending cuts. so if you reinstate the 45% you get the revenue back you are back to original budget - you dont have a surplus to spend on new nurses.
 


Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
65,590
Withdean area
There is still an element in the media that does interviews by playing devil's advocate. It isn't as grotesque as it once was (but there again I don't watch channel 5 or GB News). I accept that journalism is about asking awkward questions. But if the journalist isn't listening to the reply, or brings their bias into the arena, it's game over.

I could never be a politician. I am rude enough as it is to my own work colleagues when they venture into the realms of ****wittery. A hostile or thick journalist would soon find themselves on the receiving end of wave of c-bombs, or worse, and the lifespan of my political career would rival that of the Mayfly.

BBC supporter here, but that's the difference between R4 and R5 imho.

R4's Evan Davis as well as being highly intelligent is objective, fair and not a stirrer.

R5 (except the brilliant Nicky Campbell and Tony Livesey) presenters have an attitude, ask loaded questions, like to raise the temperature, getting 'experts'/politicians slagging off other politicians to the maximum degree .. after a while it's a bore. This isn't a leftie BBC accusation, I recall clear examples where they firing up the equivalent of binfests against left-wing councils.
 












Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
65,590
Withdean area
Here is an Interesting piece on Blair https://unherd.com/2022/04/how-blair-broke-britain/

Sent from my CPH2195 using Tapatalk

I've said on numerous occasions that housing availability/supply and flowing directly from that house prices in southern England, is the biggest issue in this country. Pre-cost of living crisis, countless millions were sofa surfing, in their 30's having to live with extended family or many people literally homeless. Vast numbers of people in their 20's and 30's unable to find £75k for a deposit.

It's actually not strictly a Labour or Tory cause. The exponential growth happened under Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron. Property prices round here are at least 6x what they were in 1995, I know specific examples.

No one truly deals with it, governments and local politicians of all colours side with nimbies for votes, every time.
 




Cheshire Cat

The most curious thing..




sparkie

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
12,755
Hove
I'd gone off Starmer recently but I did like his speech today. If he keeps this up I can't see myself voting for anyone else.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,505
I've said on numerous occasions that housing availability/supply and flowing directly from that house prices in southern England, is the biggest issue in this country. Pre-cost of living crisis, countless millions were sofa surfing, in their 30's having to live with extended family or many people literally homeless. Vast numbers of people in their 20's and 30's unable to find £75k for a deposit.

It's actually not strictly a Labour or Tory cause. The exponential growth happened under Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron. Property prices round here are at least 6x what they were in 1995, I know specific examples.

No one truly deals with it, governments and local politicians of all colours side with nimbies for votes, every time.

i swear i heard Starmer say speculators get in the way of communities building . dont want to admit to the nimby problem because they are a vocal group of voters both parties chase.
 


Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
24,334
The actual quote.

"During a Q&A session, she said: "He's superficially, he's, a black man but again he's got more in common... he went to Eton, he went to a very expensive prep school, all the way through top schools in the country.

"If you hear him on the Today programme you wouldn't know he's black." "


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63050482

I'm not clear what a black person is supposed to sound like.

Yes, it's enforcing a constrictive cultural stereo-type. It's a shame when folk do that. It's like the phrase 'choc-ice' but in reverse.

It's not racist, as some are stirring it up to be, but it is pigeon-holing what is expected of character.

What she has done is open up the possibility of quality discourse on the whole subject matter. But I suspect that folk will just prefer point scoring and mud-slinging. It's much easier.
 


Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
58,212
hassocks
The actual quote.

"During a Q&A session, she said: "He's superficially, he's, a black man but again he's got more in common... he went to Eton, he went to a very expensive prep school, all the way through top schools in the country.

"If you hear him on the Today programme you wouldn't know he's black." "


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63050482

I'm not clear what a black person is supposed to sound like.

Labour do love to shoot themselves in the foot when the media is watching.
 




Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
11,158
I'd gone off Starmer recently but I did like his speech today. If he keeps this up I can't see myself voting for anyone else.

He has to seize this moment.
Labour will never get another chance to get a decent majority.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,505
Yes, it's enforcing a constrictive cultural stereo-type. It's a shame when folk do that. It's like the phrase 'choc-ice' but in reverse.

It's not racist, as some are stirring it up to be, but it is pigeon-holing what is expected of character.

What she has done is open up the possibility of quality discourse on the whole subject matter
. But I suspect that folk will just prefer point scoring and mud-slinging. It's much easier.

what?? i cant see what discourse can arise, certainly nothing productive. others saying this would be asked to resign.
 
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