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Is Keir really credible?

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Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
53,236
Faversham




beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,622
It's cheaper to nationalise the industry than it is to 'borrow' money to put into customer accounts which then has to be paid back.

relief for current crisis is a temporay issue. nationalisation means you buy back the infrastucture, then pay for maintaince, new investment. that all goes on the state's balance sheet, the govenment holds the debt. then they have to balance investment in new power production alongside new hospitals, or new roads, more wages for nurses or civil servants etc. if you dont like private ownership, fine, need to find a new way to sustain investment.
 
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Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
66,218
Withdean area
Yep. I may have mentioned this earlier today. Mrs T had to leave the room. I had a bit of a sigh and an occasional titter.

Any phone in, any opportunity, the tiny number of campaigning loony leftists (and rightists) pile in, casting mischief around like bad confetti.

:lolol: :wink:

They'd disappeared for a long time, both from NSC and media interviews.

My theory on their reappearance this week is; a mixture of jealousy, 'what might've been' and arrogance.

They now see Starmer heading towards say 300 seats in England & Wales, they feel robbed that this could've been Momentum manifesto with them heading for Downing Street.

Arrogance because they fail to realise that conservative UK would've given them far, far fewer seats. That's despite Lockdowns/Boris/Putin/the latest mini budget. Starmer's Labour is far more palatable to Middle England.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
53,236
Faversham
The idea that the tories want small government because they don't believe in government, and can't be bothered to govern, is quite a clever notion.

We all know Johnson was lazy, but of course, it's their actual way, now. Small government. Do nothing. Stay behind the curve.

Time for some big government!
 


usernamed

New member
Aug 31, 2017
763
he's got them on their feet with publically owned Great British Energy, overlooking the debt burden building all the infrastructure promised. need to move on from public ownership to a more advanced model.

Public ownership has its place. I agree it should be used sparingly, but national infrastructure where meaningful competition can’t be introduced without great expense or is simply physically unrealistic (see rail infrastructure. sewerage, energy distribution etc.) public ownership is the path to go down.

Certainly more efficient than a patchwork of private companies all taking money out for directors/shareholders, blaming each other for issues, and doing the most minimal necessary maintenance of the infrastructure they are supposed to be maintaining and modernising, safe in the knowledge that they will hand it back to the taxpayer once they’ve run it into the ground.
 




Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
66,218
Withdean area
The idea that the tories want small government because they don't believe in government, and can't be bothered to govern, is quite a clever notion.

We all know Johnson was lazy, but of course, it's their actual way, now. Small government. Do nothing. Stay behind the curve.

Time for some big government!

In Montana and Alaska they literally want to shoot people who call for that. 'Off-gridders' .... who use public services when it benefits them.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
53,236
Faversham
They'd disappeared for a long time, both from NSC and media interviews.

My theory on their reappearance this week is; a mixture of jealousy, 'what might've been' and arrogance.

They now see Starmer heading towards say 300 seats in England & Wales, they feel robbed that this could've been Momentum manifesto with them heading for Downing Street.

Arrogance because they fail to realise that conservative UK would've given them far, far fewer seats. That's despite Lockdowns/Boris/Putin/the latest mini budget. Starmer's Labour is far more palatable to Middle England.

Yes. Something else - Starmer sounds like someone who will be immune from sniping from inside his tent.

And I don't think he's remotely bothered about those old lefties who may decide to snipe from outside the tent.

A confident leader not beholden to anyone. Crikey!
 


Questions

Habitual User
Oct 18, 2006
25,092
Worthing
Have NEVER voted Tory in my life, never will.

I live in a massive Tory majority, so I don't bother.

It’s still worth though if only to chip away at the Tory vote…. Look at Worthing in the local and Brighton a few years back when things started changing. If you live in Henley I’d take your point though.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
53,236
Faversham


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
relief for current crisis is a temporay issue. nationalisation means you buy back the infrastucture, then pay for maintaince, new investment. that all goes on the state's balance sheet, the govenment holds the debt. then they have to balance investment in new power production alongside new hospitals, or new roads, more wages for nurses or civil servants etc. if you dont like private ownership, fine, need to find a new way to sustain investment.

I worked in the industry for 25 years and was there when it privatised. Don't tell me how it works.
 










Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,184
Fiveways
Precisely.

I listened all afternoon to Colin Powell and Jack Straw explaining why action had to be taken in Iraq, with Blix spending ten years unable to check for WMD as Saddam pissed him about.

I didn't agree with the war but I agreed with the decision to stand by America and go to war, labour and conservative foresquare together, rather than Blair tell the Americans to piss off (which would have had the tories and the media crucify labour for betraying our allies and giving succour to terrorism).

The aftertiming following the revelation that the existence of WMDs was 'hyped' (i.e., invented - and needlessly so, Blair's only error) is as ludicrous as it is foolhardy. When the criticism comes from the left (as it mostly does) it does nothing more than undermine the support for labour (today) and help the conservatives. Which is exactly what the extreme left wants - the labour party destroyed so that a New Socialist Party can arise, with Corbyn at the helm (see posts passim by Jolly Green Giant, even in the last week!).

I am very much fed up with all this sneaky campaigning for the conservatives by the extreme left, in the hope that it will facilitate The Revolution. And I am disgusted by the way parts of the right seize upon it, in order to portray 'new' labour as bad (with Corbyn labour of course bad) and Starmer's labour bad for being both 'cosplay Blair' AND extremely left wing and Corbinny. It's time all these pillocks all just ****ed right off.

I heard Powell -- saying it was about regime change -- and Straw saying it was about WMD in 45 minutes. I heard Blix, stating he hadn't found anything, and wanted more time for inspections. I heard Robin Cook. I've also seen the devastation it caused the Middle East ever since.
Despite all that, Blair remains the best PM I've witnessed. And, back on topic, SKS speech buoyant and bolder.
 




nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,990
Gods country fortnightly
Publicly owned green energy company, what's not to like? Remember the Tories sold off the green investment bank at the first opportunity, so short sighted....
 


Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
17,184
Fiveways
Public ownership has its place. I agree it should be used sparingly, but national infrastructure where meaningful competition can’t be introduced without great expense or is simply physically unrealistic (see rail infrastructure. sewerage, energy distribution etc.) public ownership is the path to go down.

Certainly more efficient than a patchwork of private companies all taking money out for directors/shareholders, blaming each other for issues, and doing the most minimal necessary maintenance of the infrastructure they are supposed to be maintaining and modernising, safe in the knowledge that they will hand it back to the taxpayer once they’ve run it into the ground.

Agreed. You'll only reach the goal -- clean energy by 2030 (a welcome, bold mission) -- through a nationalised industry. To add to your points, he also indicated that the plan was to partner with business so -- until proved otherwise -- I'll assume the plan isn't for the state to do all of this.
 


Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
24,265
Sussex by the Sea
Screenshot_20220927-151852~2.png
 










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