[Football] If Palace can't play in the Europa League

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

They had a two-season and c£300m head start on us, but we've soon overtaken them, finishing higher in the Premier League than they ever have.

Surely it’s a 4 season and nearly half a billion head start on us, most of which they spent getting back and then keeping Zaha at the club.

They’ve achieved a cup and Europe in 12 seasons.

We got European qualification in 6 seasons and still have 3 more to effectively win a cup quicker than them too.

 

[Milano]

I don't recall any autumn boos. The fans have been totally behind Glasner since day one. I think we all knew why we weren't getting results at the start of the season & we knew that the manager wasn't to blame for it.

Bollocks. I know 3 Palace STH and they were all questioning him in September, I don’t know if they booed him.

 

[Bozza]

Surely it’s a 4 season and nearly half a billion head start on us, most of which they spent getting back and then keeping Zaha at the club.

Was it really four? I coudln't be bothered to look it up, and my memory is rubbish!

 

[Berty23]

I don't recall any autumn boos. The fans have been totally behind Glasner since day one. I think we all knew why we weren't getting results at the start of the season & we knew that the manager wasn't to blame for it.

Fair enough. I am basing this on a mate who is a palace season ticket holder saying some bell ends were booing and getting disgruntled. I think it was after forest but might be wrong. Apologies if so

 

[Uh_huh_him]

They won their first major trophy. That alone, I guess makes it a superb season.

In the same way, Spurs won their first trophjy in nearly 20 years and qualified for the Champions League. Again, in that regard, it was a superb season.

But I humbly suggest that when taking a more holistic view of Palace's season, it can't really be described as "superb".

They finished in their near-customary 12th place in the Premier League. The 9th time in 10 seasons they have been bottom half.

They had a two-season and c£300m head start on us, but we've soon overtaken them, finishing higher in the Premier League than they ever have.

You could even make the case that they've been overtaken by the likes of Brentford, Bournemouth and Fulham now too.

Finally, despite all that, we've not spent more than them. We've spent less. They're well ahead of us in the five-year net spend table:

11) Crystal Palace five-year net spend: £-159.21m
24/25: £7.45m
23/24: £-56.2m (10th)
22/23: £-34.11m (11th)
21/22: £-70.97m (12th)
20/21: £-2m (14th)

16) Brighton five-year net spend: £-75.75m
24/25: £-191.58m
23/24: £69.1m (11th)
22/23: £70.82m (6th)
21/22: £3.25m (9th)
20/21: £-29.6m (16th)

Superb season, is a very subjective term though isn't it?
I remember myself having a similarly volatile conversation on these very pages, after Chris Hughton was sacked, following what I considered to be a superb season:

• Stayed up
• Double Over Palace
• FA Cup semi-final

Well maybe not superb - as the league form was abject for the entire season. But you get my point.

I bet there isn't a Palace fan who would rate this season as anything less than superb.

The recency bias of the past 6 months, is a big factor.
They have pulled themselves out of a potential relegation battle, to their customary 12th position
Completed the double over us whilst going on an unstoppable run to lift the cup.
And now looking forward to their first European tour.

They have quite a lot of momentum. Hopefully the transfer window, will clip it a bit.

 

[Berty23]

Whatever happens it will be interesting time for palace. Can they keep star players thanks to Europa league? We couldn’t. Ours had longer contracts too.

Will they spend on improving the squad? They were incredibly lucky with injuries last season apart from a couple of matches before the international break in the autumn.

If Burnley and Leeds could make a decent fist of it then it could be fun.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Fair enough. I am basing this on a mate who is a palace season ticket holder saying some bell ends were booing and getting disgruntled. I think it was after forest but might be wrong. Apologies if so

Every club boo their team/management at some point of the season.
It's normally only us that get told that we should know our history and be grateful for what we've got.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Whatever happens it will be interesting time for palace. Can they keep star players thanks to Europa league? We couldn’t. Ours had longer contracts too.

Will they spend on improving the squad? They were incredibly lucky with injuries last season apart from a couple of matches before the international break in the autumn.

If Burnley and Leeds could make a decent fist of it then it could be fun.

Here's hoping.

I won't waste any time hoping their injury record gets worse.
There's a reason why Forest and Palace have one of the better injury records and ourselves and Spurs don't.

It isn't just down to luck.

 

[Bozza]

Superb season, is a very subjective term though isn't it?
I remember myself having a similarly volatile conversation on these very pages, after Chris Hughton was sacked, following what I considered to be a superb season:

• Stayed up
• Double Over Palace
• FA Cup semi-final

Well maybe not superb - as the league form was abject for the entire season. But you get my point.

I bet there isn't a Palace fan who would rate this season as anything less than superb.

The recency bias of the past 6 months, is a big factor.
They have pulled themselves out of a potential relegation battle, to their customary 12th position
Completed the double over us whilst going on an unstoppable run to lift the cup.
And now looking forward to their first European tour.

They have quite a lot of momentum. Hopefully the transfer window, will clip it a bit.

I think the broader truth is that the Premier League's middle-class have all progressed significantly over the last 2-3 years.

Each side has a fair few high-quality players that could slot into "big clubs" easily, and each of these clubs is capable of giving a bloody nose to those big clubs any time they meet.

We were able to break into the top six. Palace were able to win the FA Cup and Forest came agonisingly close to Champions League footbell.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Whatever happens it will be interesting time for palace. Can they keep star players thanks to Europa league? We couldn’t. Ours had longer contracts too.

Will they spend on improving the squad? They were incredibly lucky with injuries last season apart from a couple of matches before the international break in the autumn.

If Burnley and Leeds could make a decent fist of it then it could be fun.

I'm also interested to see whether losing Freedman will have any impact.
He's often credited with building this team, after they were forced to let half their squad run their contracts down.

 

[Brovion]

...

In my opinion, we have gained more point in the league than last year, and won the FA Cup, and reached the quarter final of the league cup. I would have taken that at the start of the season.

....

We did win both games against Brighton, with some ease I would suggest, even when down to 9 men, but did finish 8 points behind. However, I would have taken these outcomes at the start of the season, and I suspect the same if roles and positions etc were reversed

Whether our Europa league adventure will be as successful as yours, who knows. We probably wont get such a glamorous draw, and it may put extra stress on the squad, but right now, I'm definitely "Glad All Over"

Yes. I'd swap our season for yours in a heartbeat and some of the straw-clutching on here from my fellow Brighton fans is frankly embarrassing. ("Ah but we finished higher than them in the league so therefore our season was better").

You had a good league season, a decent finishing position with as you say more points than last year. You did the double over us for the first time since the 1930s or something (although we didn't play for for years as you've often been in a higher division to us) and you did well in the league cup. In a normal season that alone might be enough to give you bragging rights but there was something else as well ..... oh yeah, you won a major trophy which neither of us have been able to do in 200-odd years of joint history. (Although even now I can hear voices whining that 'Palace have only been going for a few years').

Once again, as is so often the case, we will have to play catch-up. The best we can hope for is that last season's signings will gel, and that our much-vaunted business model, and our beloved chairman can deliver 'Jam tomorrow'.

 

[Jim in the West]

Yes. I'd swap our season for yours in a heartbeat and some of the straw-clutching on here from my fellow Brighton fans is frankly embarrassing. ("Ah but we finished higher than them in the league so therefore our season was better").

You had a good league season, a decent finishing position with as you say more points than last year. You did the double over us for the first time since the 1930s or something (although we didn't play for for years as you've often been in a higher division to us) and you did well in the league cup. In a normal season that alone might be enough to give you bragging rights but there was something else as well ..... oh yeah, you won a major trophy which neither of us have been able to do in 200-odd years of joint history. (Although even now I can hear voices whining that 'Palace have only been going for a few years').

Once again, as is so often the case, we will have to play catch-up. The best we can hope for is that last season's signings will gel, and that our much-vaunted business model, and our beloved chairman can deliver 'Jam tomorrow'.

I've been very dubious of the Palace business model for years, and have been expecting it to crash spectacularly at some stage....but recent signings have generally been pretty successful (even after a slow start - eg: Mateta). The likes of Wharton, Munoz, Lerma, Lacroix have had really good seasons. Plus Henderson, and of course Eze, who is different class (but obviously the latter two aren't recent signings). Probably a few others that I haven't noticed. Fair play to them.

 

[lawros left foot]

I saw my Palace mate today( I look on it as my contribution to care in the community)

Surprisingly, he was very balanced in his views of the Cup win, and their season.

He said that Henderson would have been given a red in any other game, had it happened, City would have pumped them, but, thought maybe VAR/the ref didn’t want to ruin the Final. Admitted they had the easiest run to the final that they could of dreamed of.

Then, he reverted to type, doing the double over us was the highlight of their league season.

 

[Creaky]

Here's hoping.

I won't waste any time hoping their injury record gets worse.
There's a reason why Forest and Palace have one of the better injury records and ourselves and Spurs don't.

It isn't just down to luck.

You've highlighted a subject I was going to ask about.

Are injuries down to just "luck" or are there other factors within the remit of the club, management and/or medical staff?

If it's not all just "luck" then isn't using injuries to explain results, either better or worse than expected, unjustified?

 

[Uh_huh_him]

You've highlighted a subject I was going to ask about.

Are injuries down to just "luck" or are there other factors within the remit of the club, management and/or medical staff?

If it's not all just "luck" then isn't using injuries to explain results, either better or worse than expected, unjustified?

Huerzeler has said that he told the club that they should expect to see injuries go up.
His expectations of the amount of running each player needs to make each game, is a significant factor in the number of injuries we have had.

So yes, the argument that we would be better if we could always play our best 11 is not justified.
But so is mine that some of their players are better. They just have to do a lot less running about.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Huerzeler has said that he told the club that they should expect to see injuries go up.
His expectations of the amount of running each player needs to make each game, is a significant factor in the number of injuries we have had.

So yes, the argument that we would be better if we could always play our best 11 is not justified.
But so is mine that some of their players are better. They just have to do a lot less running about.

Another absolutely nonsense argument. If the bulk of our injuries had been muscular you could try to make something of this - as this is what Hurzeler was warning of, and is a well-known outcome of a high intensity game plan.

But that largely is not the case. Long term absences for O’Riley, Joao Pedro, Kadioglu and Rutter were all impact injuries entirely unconnected with running stats. Sometimes sheer bad luck actually IS an important factor.

 

[nicko31]

Interestingly, Opta have Forest as massively overachieving their actual play this season, and Palace underachieving...

Which Premier League Teams Finished in Wrong Position According to Opta's Expected Points Table? | Opta Analyst

We analyse the 2024-25 Premier League expected points table; put crudely, what the table ‘should’ look like based on each team’s underlying numbers.

theanalyst.com

Palace have never finished in the PL top half and they won’t next season

 

[Creaky]

Palace have never finished in the PL top half and they won’t next season

Didn't they finish 10th last season?

Am I being wooshed?

 

[Stato]

Here's hoping.

I won't waste any time hoping their injury record gets worse.
There's a reason why Forest and Palace have one of the better injury records and ourselves and Spurs don't.

It isn't just down to luck.

From Naylor's NYT article about our injury troubles:

A club source, granted anonymity to protect relationships, says: “We look at it all the time. The review goes on constantly with the medical staff, the performance staff, Fabian. But when you break down the injuries, so many are entirely random, there is no pattern. Some have been high-impact injuries in matches, which you can’t do anything about.

“A couple of them have been high-impact injuries in training, which happens when you train at high intensity. There is not a repeated pattern of soft-tissue injuries, so it’s not over- or under-training, it’s just bad luck.”

It seems logical to presume that the more high intensity sides will suffer more soft tissue injuries and those that spend more time keeping their shape and letting their opponents probe will have less, but it doesn't necessary follow. Postecoglu's high energy demanded Tottenham team have the fifth worst problems this season, but they sit one place above Everton who have been managed by the pragmatists Dyche and Moyes.

 

[Berty23]

Another absolutely nonsense argument. If the bulk of our injuries had been muscular you could try to make something of this - as this is what Hurzeler was warning of, and is a well-known outcome of a high intensity game plan.

But that largely is not the case. Long term absences for O’Riley, Joao Pedro, Kadioglu and Rutter were all impact injuries entirely unconnected with running stats. Sometimes sheer bad luck actually IS an important factor.

Hang on. Are you saying that o’Riley getting assaulted by someone regarded in his non league days as a thug and complete wrongun was not down to training? I still can’t believe the forest bench cleared when MGW had a decent go at breaking pedro’s leg. Wasn’t he only given a second yellow? Outrageous if I remember correctly.