ID cards being sneaked in by the back door?

[Don't get me started]

Presumably then you don't assume everyone is a shitbag and no doubt never lock your front door or your car. The government do not consider us all shitbags and it's stupid to say so. I am personally not against them in principle but feel the proposals need refining.

Actually I trust most people and it has served me well, I have had 2 bikes stolen and this is mostly because I dont always lock them to something secure, and I cycle everywhere. To answer your question though I do lock the house and the car because you have to. My point here is that the amount of people who actually commit a crime is tiny so why do we all have to suffer.

 

[Mtoto]

I also have no problem with an ID card, it seems the hardened lefties are the ones who have the biggest problem with them

So you would also, presumably, have "no problem" with having "known right-wing sympathiser" encoded into the data at some point in the future? And "no problem" with trusting a future, extreme left-wing government to use that data responsibly, rather than exploiting it to round up their opponents for a spot of "re-education"?

If you allow the individuals themselves to pick and choose what's recorded, it defeats the entire object of the exercise. You might think that you have nothing to hide, but it's not up to you. Ultimately, it's the government (and every future government in your lifetime, and your childrens' and grandchildrens' lifetimes) that will be the judge of that.

 

[Curious Orange]

I can see how some of these scenarios would be beneficial. I just want to CHOOSE if they will be beneficial to me.
At the moment I am seeing that I will...
a) Have to pay money to have a card and be added to the ID register
b) Have to inconvenience myself by travelling to a "center" to be processed
c) Have to give up information which I consider to be private.
d) lose a little of my liberty.

All things considered, I don't want that. Particularly as I don't see any immediate benefits for me, commensurate with what I will be giving up in cash, time and liberty.
However, I have been given no choice.
Therein lies my reservations.

There is so much more to say on this subject, we have barely scratched the surface.
Still, it's long past my bedtime, so I'll just have to post this as it is, and hope I've not missed too many material points.

You can choose not to have an ID card though... if you choose never to leave the country again once your passport expires. A good "voluntary" system.

 

[Don't get me started]

You can choose not to have an ID card though... if you choose never to leave the country again once your passport expires. A good "voluntary" system.

Choice is the word there.. We will all be forced to have id cards which we will pay for and we still have to pay for our passport(if we choose to have one).....hmm sale of the century

 

[gullshark]

If you don't want ID cards (like myself) then vote out the Labour government in 2009. This labour government has imposed stupid, authoritarian laws (there was a thread somewhere that listed some) and I'm afraid this is the last straw.

I mean, the tories are also good at screwing up a country and the lib dems can be two faced as we know - but at least they're not Labour.

 

[London Calling]

Thanks for taking the time to put your points across, I am still not convinced though but I respect your right to spend your 80quid buying one of these as we will have no choice.
I on the other hand will go to jail rather than carry one of these, it will be the only crime I have ever committed (apart from a couple of speeding tickets).

I do have to say that your defense of the banks is a bit suspect, we have just bailed the robbimg bastards out for 50bn and now everyone must pay £80 to protect them.. Sorry.

PLus, we already have passports and birth certificate's whicjh do an adaquate job already

 

[London Calling]

to me, the debate has to be about:

What does an id card offer to the british citizen, more than he already has?

That's why, to me if the card SIMPLIFIES the issuing of 3/4 cards then great, all these other cards eg NI, E11 etc are free so should this one be. The card should be flexible to add on Drivers Licence and perhaps enable travel thru Europe.

But an ID card should NOT be about what is good for an intrusive Government.

It should not be about protecting the retailer, the banks.

If the UK Govt and Population agree to my first rationale then I am fine with an ID card.


Back to an earlier point our ID cards if to be used for travel can therefore be read by other nations immigration and security forces, thats why I believe the eye biometrics has been designed to fit in with the yanks and Israli#'s. No point in saying the cards will stop terrorist travel, if they don't allow immigration security to be briefed by your details.

Even now I assume EC immigration are reading stuff about me as they review my details on their screens??

 

[Don't get me started]

What does an id card offer to the british citizen, more than he already has?

That's why, to me if the card SIMPLIFIES the issuing of 3/4 cards then great, all these other cards eg NI, E11 etc are free so should this one be. The card should be flexible to add on Drivers Licence and perhaps enable travel thru Europe.

But an ID card should NOT be about what is good for an intrusive Government


Now THAT I could almost see, I am still against the biometrics but I am almost there with that proposal. It seems like the new driving license, replace one bit of paper with 2, charge for it and then have it renewed every 10 years which you have to pay for ,as you will with the id card .....Kerching