How many will follow Coventry and QPR’s lead?

[The Lego Stand]

I think you'll find it's patronising TRUTH.

I'll beg to differ and not lose any sleep over it.

 

[Pierre the Painter]

The salaries (and I accept that I used a loaded, emotive term to qualify them) are relevant to this extent.

The whole theoretical underpinning of the BLM narrative is that black people are subject to an imbalance of power in the UK and US, are confronted with racism on a daily basis, are more likely to be shot dead by the police, suffer income disparities, lower employment opportunities and are prejudiced on the basis of skin colour.

Yet black men are over represented in the highest reaches of professional football compared to the population as a whole, their lived experience refutes the theory, in their chosen field. (And this is even more the case in the NFL where black players FAR outnumber white ones, despite forming a fraction of the white general demographic). Football is Darwinian, if you are good enough, you play, whatever the colour of your skin. And this is a job which is amongst the most glamorous, most richly rewarded in the entire society. (American football is an even bigger example of this phenomenon, which is why the players' decision not to take a knee to the National Anthem is so resented by so many of the (largely) white, blue collar fan base. Multi millionaires, dripping with WAGS, telling guys who earn less in a year than they do in a few days to check their white privilege is probably somewhat galling).


Football isn't very racist. It used to be, sure, but now it really isn't.

That is a good thing, of course. But why are we pretending something is what it isn't?

I'd argue it is, but I don't think black people are particularly prejudiced in football, if anything they are celebrated for being black now more than ever. If anyone is prejudiced in football be it in the professional game, in the stands, in grass roots it is the asian community. Totally under represented at every level of the game, if football reallty wants to solve its own problems first before shining a light on the rest of societies ills it would do well to tackle this first, which is why I find the black lives matter/taking a knee completely OTT from the PL/sky.

 

[Swansman]

I'd argue it is, but I don't think black people are particularly prejudiced in football, if anything they are celebrated for being black now more than ever. If anyone is prejudiced in football be it in the professional game, in the stands, in grass roots it is the asian community. Totally under represented at every level of the game, if football reallty wants to solve its own problems first before shining a light on the rest of societies ills it would do well to tackle this first, which is why I find the black lives matter/taking a knee completely OTT from the PL/sky.

I'm not sure I've ever heard about a player being celebrated for being black (except when speaking about history - first black player to do x etc) so I'm not with you on that.

I agree though that professional sports in general is doing quite fine when it comes to not being racist. Some fans are, but clubs and managers seemingly dont give a shit about skin colour, which is how it should be. I dont think racism is the issue when it comes to Asian players either. If they are good enough, they are good enough. Its not i.e. the PL managers fault that China and other large Asian countries are incapable of producing good footballers.

 

[Killer Whale]

I'd argue it is, but I don't think black people are particularly prejudiced in football, if anything they are celebrated for being black now more than ever. If anyone is prejudiced in football be it in the professional game, in the stands, in grass roots it is the asian community. Totally under represented at every level of the game, if football reallty wants to solve its own problems first before shining a light on the rest of societies ills it would do well to tackle this first, which is why I find the black lives matter/taking a knee completely OTT from the PL/sky.

I don't know whether black footballers are celebrated for being black, but it certainly doesn't hold them back.

We are constantly (on a theoretical level) told that there are no differences between the races. That skin colour is just a matter of pigmentation, it makes no other difference. And indeed that to assert the contrary is to be "racist." In other words, the opinion doesn't count, it is just by its very nature, racist and therefore wrong.

But we all know that this is contradicted by the evidence in front of our very eyes. Black men are superior, on average, to white men as footballers. Their bodies are stronger, more attuned to the demands of the sport. That doesn't mean that lots of white players aren't better than black ones individually, but as a matter of physique it is surely incontrovertible. There is a reason that all the best sprinters on the planet are black. It is a question of physiology, although I can't give you the exact reasons, fast twitch muscles, ya de ya.

Black guys dominate heavyweight boxing too. And have done ever since the racism that used to be prevalent in the sport was mitigated.

More controversially it is true for races in other human endeavours as well. Check out the number of Jewish Chess Grandmasters as a proportion of the world's population. The over representation is quite staggering.

But we aren't supposed to notice this. Or if we do we mustn't state the bleedin obvious, that there are innate differences in capacity and ability linked to racial disparities (as well as cultural ones of course).

Truly, the discussion of the whole subject of race in our culture has become taboo in any meaningful sense.

 

[cunning fergus]

I'd argue it is, but I don't think black people are particularly prejudiced in football, if anything they are celebrated for being black now more than ever. If anyone is prejudiced in football be it in the professional game, in the stands, in grass roots it is the asian community. Totally under represented at every level of the game, if football reallty wants to solve its own problems first before shining a light on the rest of societies ills it would do well to tackle this first, which is why I find the black lives matter/taking a knee completely OTT from the PL/sky.

The assumption here is do they (the Asian community) want to play football in the same way as the White British and other black communities do?

Indian and Chinese background kids (even on free school meals) do far better at school than white British and other Black kids. White British boys on free school meals evidently rely on their privilege to see them through life, they are at the bottom of the pile currently below their black Caribbean peers although black African boys on free school dinners do better than average.

At the bottom of the pile in educational attainment but I hope they are taking the knee all the same.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ds/attachment_data/file/494073/SFR01_2016.pdf

 

[Swansman]

I don't know whether black footballers are celebrated for being black, but it certainly doesn't hold them back.

We are constantly (on a theoretical level) told that there are no differences between the races. That skin colour is just a matter of pigmentation, it makes no other difference. And indeed that to assert the contrary is to be "racist." In other words, the opinion doesn't count, it is just by its very nature, racist and therefore wrong.

But we all know that this is contradicted by the evidence in front of our very eyes. Black men are superior, on average, to white men as footballers. Their bodies are stronger, more attuned to the demands of the sport. That doesn't mean that lots of white players aren't better than black ones individually, but as a matter of physique it is surely incontrovertible. There is a reason that all the best sprinters on the planet are black. It is a question of physiology, although I can't give you the exact reasons, fast twitch muscles, ya de ya.

Black guys dominate heavyweight boxing too. And have done ever since the racism that used to be prevalent in the sport was mitigated.

More controversially it is true for races in other human endeavours as well. Check out the number of Jewish Chess Grandmasters as a proportion of the world's population. The over representation is quite staggering.

But we aren't supposed to notice this. Or if we do we mustn't state the bleedin obvious, that there are innate differences in capacity and ability linked to racial disparities (as well as cultural ones of course).

Truly, the discussion of the whole subject of race in our culture has become taboo in any meaningful sense.

On your last line: yea true, too bad because it used to be such a good and fruitful discussion.

 

[WilburySeagull]

One or two posters seem to have lost the point of blm here. The support of it in football is not to make any point about football its about the treatment of black people in the wider community. If you like taking the knee is akin to wearing a poppy.

 

[Weststander]

I'm not sure I've ever heard about a player being celebrated for being black (except when speaking about history - first black player to do x etc) so I'm not with you on that.

I agree though that professional sports in general is doing quite fine when it comes to not being racist. Some fans are, but clubs and managers seemingly dont give a shit about skin colour, which is how it should be. I dont think racism is the issue when it comes to Asian players either. If they are good enough, they are good enough. Its not i.e. the PL managers fault that China and other large Asian countries are incapable of producing good footballers.

Kick It Out strongly believe that systemic discrimination favouring white over black people in the game is prevalent, once it comes to the all important senior jobs.

"... less attention has been accorded to the management and administrative culture of the game, leaving it exposed to claims of institutional discrimination and exclusion".

" ... it is clear that there are policies and practices in place that contribute to excluding employment opportunities to people from different backgrounds. This is particularly so in coaching and team management but even more so in administrative and senior management positions in clubs and authorities including the leagues".

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Didn’t take the knee prior to kick off in the Sky Championship game last night.

Sky tried to make a big thing of it at 90 minutes, but Mark Warburton’s response was admirable and hopefully will strike a chord with other clubs. When pressed why they didn’t do it he pointed out perhaps they’d like to talk about all the work Rangers do in the community in West London and have done for many years rather than one specific gesture.

Trained marxists
Regards
DF

 

[Killer Whale]

On your last line: yea true, too bad because it used to be such a good and fruitful discussion.

I assume you are being sarcastic.

We have thrown the baby out with the bathwater, that is my point. You have to be able to speak the truth, confront reality or you live in a make believe world of denial.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Why does it bother you so much?

Why does his post bother you
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

One or two posters seem to have lost the point of blm here. The support of it in football is not to make any point about football its about the treatment of black people in the wider community. If you like taking the knee is akin to wearing a poppy.

What has WW1 got to do with BLM
Regards
DF

 

[cunning fergus]

One or two posters seem to have lost the point of blm here. The support of it in football is not to make any point about football its about the treatment of black people in the wider community. If you like taking the knee is akin to wearing a poppy.

Are you sure all the posters understand the point of BLM.........

https://images.app.goo.gl/pioZ1fCqnxrqrchb9

The overthrow of capitalism is an important BLM objective to note, especially if those supporting the BLM movement are some of the best rewarded under the prevailing capitalist system. I am pretty sure many people in the U.K. think that multi millionaires need to spend less time on their knees and more time dishing out their riches to fund initiatives to help the black poor in this country if they genuinely support BLM.

The last time I looked the British Legion were not looking to overthrow capitalism, and the poppy is a recognition of a donation to the Poppy Fund (a charity). Football players take the knee for nothing.......it’s why it’s a worthless gesture.

Ask Sir Les.

 

[Swansman]

Kick It Out strongly believe that systemic discrimination favouring white over black people in the game is prevalent, once it comes to the all important senior jobs.

"... less attention has been accorded to the management and administrative culture of the game, leaving it exposed to claims of institutional discrimination and exclusion".

" ... it is clear that there are policies and practices in place that contribute to excluding employment opportunities to people from different backgrounds. This is particularly so in coaching and team management but even more so in administrative and senior management positions in clubs and authorities including the leagues".

Its possible, wasnt clear perhaps but I was only talking about players

 

[cunning fergus]

Kick It Out strongly believe that systemic discrimination favouring white over black people in the game is prevalent, once it comes to the all important senior jobs.

"... less attention has been accorded to the management and administrative culture of the game, leaving it exposed to claims of institutional discrimination and exclusion".

" ... it is clear that there are policies and practices in place that contribute to excluding employment opportunities to people from different backgrounds. This is particularly so in coaching and team management but even more so in administrative and senior management positions in clubs and authorities including the leagues".

If there is one thing we know since the 90s is that there are less white British players in the system than ever. Overall I think there has been little complaint about this fact, I would rather have a competitive league structure with all comers than not (so long as there is proportionately to that end).

However, this is why initiatives in football like the Rooney Rule won’t work, we equally have more foreign owners of clubs than ever, is it only Black British managers like Ryan Giggs that get on the list or are we stretching it over to black non Brits like Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink and Chris Hughton?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

So want tangible benefits will we see by the 'powerful' taking of the knee yesterday?

Nothing , just a pantomime event before a football match , talk about stage managed
Regards
DF

 

[Baker lite]

One or two posters seem to have lost the point of blm here. The support of it in football is not to make any point about football its about the treatment of black people in the wider community. If you like taking the knee is akin to wearing a poppy.

I’m not sure I agree with you on this point, taking the knee for anti Semitic thugs who’s stated aim is to defund the police has nothing to with the poppy being worn in support of our service men and women, past and present.

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[Pretty pink fairy]

This.

As someone posted, when we let in 2,000 supporters to watch the Chelsea friendly a couple felt empowered to boo the taking of the knee.

I don't think I need to add anything to that.

Is there a law that says you can't boo trained Marxists H
Regards
DF

 

[Baker lite]

Is there a law that says you can't boo H
Regards
DF

I bet the treacherous old **** would like one.


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[Pretty pink fairy]

I bet the treacherous old **** would like one.


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Poor old H has been institutionalized through school / university a sort of brainwashing, seems a bit out of touch with a lot of people's opinions on the topic
Regards
DF