Homophobia issues in football

[Goldstone Rapper]

Its hardly a major issue really.

Agreed.

So many people are talking it up as a major issue, exaggerating the extent to which the football world is ridden with homophobia, that it's hardly a surprise that hardly anyone has come out as gay while remaining in professional footballer.

Instead, we need to consider the possibility that most football fans and players are not homophobic, and that, especially in Brighton, any footballer coming out as gay would probably be pushing at an open door.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There are enough complaints after the above mentioned chant which must suggest that some people get extremely upset by them. If these are to be stamped out I would suggest that certain Brighton supporters should stop singing one nil to the nancy boys and so on.

There haven't been any complaints about the above mentioned chant, to my knowledge.

 

[symyjym]

Agreed.

So many people are talking it up as a major issue, exaggerating the extent to which the football world is ridden with homophobia, that it's hardly a surprise that hardly anyone has come out as gay while remaining in professional footballer.

Instead, we need to consider the possibility that most football fans and players are not homophobic, and that, especially in Brighton, any footballer coming out as gay would probably be pushing at an open door.

You seemed fixated on gay footballers coming out. The FA is addressing Homophobia in the terraces and has nothing to do with what you keep going on about.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Re homophobic chanting - the only issue I have is the more "graphic" chants that can be heard by kids.

As for so few footballers "coming out" - is there any evidence there ARE many gay footballers currently in the closet? I'm sure there are a handful but is it really a big deal? Most fans I know won't give a monkeys about a player's sexuality. There are more important things to think about.

 

[El Presidente]

There are more important things to think about.

Agreed. There should be MORE threads about menu prices in the 1901 lounge for a start.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

In 1990, former England Under-21 international Justin Fashanu became the first professional footballer in Britain to come out. He took his own life eight years later, aged 37.

But to clarify, Fashanu did not take his own life because of homophobia in football, nor was his professional career ended by homophobia. He played at Leyton Orient, Hearts and Aidrie all after coming out. His career was impeded more by injury and inner conflict due to the particular brand of Christianity he followed (which was vehemently hostile to homosexuality) than attitudes of fans, managers or team mates to him being gay.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

You seemed fixated on gay footballers coming out. The FA is addressing Homophobia in the terraces and has nothing to do with what you keep going on about.

There are many levels to the topic. One is the issue of homophobic chanting. Another is about gay footballers coming out. The PFA has said eight footballers have come out to it but that these players don't wish to make it public because of a fear of a backlash from fans. In the context of this thread, this is just as relevant.

 

[symyjym]

…….in Brighton, any footballer coming out as gay would probably be pushing at an open door.

Why do you associate BHAFC and an open door to come out

While it's down to everyone what they disclose about themselves, a gay footballer not disclosing their sexuality is directly feeding into a world of fear about being gay and a professional footballer. They can't have many complaints about that being the environment in which they operate, when they are unwittingly contributing to it.

You seemed fixated on gay footballers coming out. The FA is addressing Homophobia in the terraces and has nothing to do with what you keep going on about.

There are many levels to the topic. One is the issue of homophobic chanting. Another is about gay footballers coming out. The PFA has said eight footballers have come out to it but that these players don't wish to make it public because of a fear of a backlash from fans. In the context of this thread, this is just as relevant.

Mmmm, lets get all the gay footballers to come out and homophobia will stop, they are the cause

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Why do you associate BHAFC and an open door to come out

Mmmm, lets get all the gay footballers to come out and homophobia will stop, they are the cause

Because whenever there is a general thread about players coming out, very consistently the perspective from Brighton fans has been either 'who cares as long as he's a good player?' to supportive. The stance of the club and the Supporters Club to homophobic chanting has also been very clear. It would be inconceivable for them to then tolerate homophobia within the club especially over a pro coming out as gay.

Gay players are not the cause of homophobia in football but their inaction has inadvertently helped it to stay in place. It's not the case that gay footballers coming out will end homophobia overnight, any more than the prevalence of black footballers has ended racist chanting, but it would be a significant factor. At the very least, people may be less likely to use homophobic abuse against the opposition if they know two lads in their own side are openly gay.

 

[The Large One]

Because whenever there is a general thread about players coming out, very consistently the perspective from Brighton fans has been either 'who cares as long as he's a good player?' to supportive. The stance of the club and the Supporters Club to homophobic chanting has also been very clear. It would be inconceivable for them to then tolerate homophobia within the club especially over a pro coming out as gay.

Gay players are not the cause of homophobia in football but their inaction has inadvertently helped it to stay in place. It's not the case that gay footballers coming out will end homophobia overnight, any more than the prevalence of black footballers has ended racist chanting, but it would be a significant factor. At the very least, people may be less likely to use homophobic abuse against the opposition if they know two lads in their own side are openly gay.

Until such time as homophobia is dissipated to a greater degree than it is now, there won't be any players coming out.

Racism took years - no, decades - to dissipate. While homophobia will dissipate much quicker, there will still be players judged on their sexuality rather than their ability. Worse, in some cases, some maybe be targeted further in a far more sinister and nefarious manner - not just here but somewhere less tolerant across Europe.

Your argument is hopelessly naive and more than a little bit insulting to pin any of the blame back on the individual.

Of course, I assume that if you were a gay professional footballer, you'd be happy to make that fact known.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Until such time as homophobia is dissipated to a greater degree than it is now, there won't be any players coming out.

Racism took years - no, decades - to dissipate. While homophobia will dissipate much quicker, there will still be players judged on their sexuality rather than their ability. Worse, in some cases, some maybe be targeted further in a far more sinister and nefarious manner - not just here but somewhere less tolerant across Europe.

Your argument is hopelessly naive and more than a little bit insulting to pin any of the blame back on the individual.

Of course, I assume that if you were a gay professional footballer, you'd be happy to make that fact known.

Won't be any?

Well, there have already been players coming out even without the sea-change in attitude you are saying is a necessary pre-condition. It is not inconceivable that there may be others in future. But as long as people are painting a picture that the current obstacles are presently insurmountable, it makes it harder, not easier.

What it will take is some courage, which not everyone will have. What will make things easier is if it is shown that players will be supported by their clubs, that the vast majority of their supporters will back them, not this bleak picture that any gay footballer will be instantly driven out of the game due to homophobia.

Far from blaming individuals, I am making the subtler that there is an unwitting negative impact to players not coming out due to fear, which there is.

 

[symyjym]

Won't be any?

Well, there have already been players coming out even without the sea-change in attitude you are saying is a necessary pre-condition. It is not inconceivable that there may be others. But as long as people are painting a picture that the current obstacles are presently insurmountable, it makes it harder, not easier.

What it will take is some courage, which not everyone will have. What will make things easier is if it is shown that players will be supported by their clubs, that the vast majority of their supporters will back them, not this bleak picture that any gay footballer will be instantly driven out of the game due to homophobia.

Far from blaming individuals, I am making the subtler that there is an unwitting negative impact to players not coming out due to fear, which there is.

Homophobic abuse whether in football, the workplace or even in schools offends gay people when it’s used against people in a derogatory manner.

Same as the old word for Cerebral Palsy which used to be used as an insult, and was more offensive to people who have that condition than the person it was directed at.

It has nothing to do with players coming out, it is about changing peoples sense of humour.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I don't understand this big "fear" these supposed 'gay' footballers have. There are plenty of MPs who have come out, and they're under more scrutiny that footballers.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

I don't understand this big "fear" these supposed 'gay' footballers have. There are plenty of MPs who have come out, and they're under more scrutiny that footballers.

If more people related to this fear that gay footballers have of coming out as 'paranoia' it might open the way for others to consider that football players, managers and clubs may not all be homophobes. Just a thought.

 

[The Large One]

Won't be any?

Well, there have already been players coming out even without the sea-change in attitude you are saying is a necessary pre-condition. It is not inconceivable that there may be others in future. But as long as people are painting a picture that the current obstacles are presently insurmountable, it makes it harder, not easier.

What it will take is some courage, which not everyone will have. What will make things easier is if it is shown that players will be supported by their clubs, that the vast majority of their supporters will back them, not this bleak picture that any gay footballer will be instantly driven out of the game due to homophobia.

Far from blaming individuals, I am making the subtler that there is an unwitting negative impact to players not coming out due to fear, which there is.

Two players have come out - a 3rd division Swedish player, and a player who 'retired' before making his announcement from America.

No-one is saying the obstacles are insurmountable, but a player coming out with a further change in attitude will almost certainly suffer from backward-thinking pockets of society. A player being supported by their club and its fans is not the issue - that has been mentioned on here many times.

Who wants to take that leap? Would you?

 

[Guinness Boy]

I don't understand this big "fear" these supposed 'gay' footballers have. There are plenty of MPs who have come out, and they're under more scrutiny that footballers.

Because their Parliamentary colleagues will have to support them or risk being taken to pieces in The Guardian and potentially losing a substantial gay vote.

Whereas the footballers' worst nightmare will see him ostracised by his team mates, not picked and abused by both sets of fans.

 

[Deleted User X18H]

You clearly did not live up North under Thatcher.

I did.

 

[The Large One]

Agreed.

So many people are talking it up as a major issue, exaggerating the extent to which the football world is ridden with homophobia, that it's hardly a surprise that hardly anyone has come out as gay while remaining in professional footballer.

Instead, we need to consider the possibility that most football fans and players are not homophobic, and that, especially in Brighton, any footballer coming out as gay would probably be pushing at an open door.

What naive, make-believe world do you live in to think the garden is that rosy?

Do you not hear the choruses from opposing supporters at Brighton matches? That is no exaggeration. That happens, week in, week out. They're aimed at thousands, knowing it won't hurt them. That will be as nothing in comparison to the grief one person gets when the Brighton fans get forgotten and he alone becomes the target.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Because their Parliamentary colleagues will have to support them or risk being taken to pieces in The Guardian and potentially losing a substantial gay vote.

Whereas the footballers' worst nightmare will see him ostracised by his team mates, not picked and abused by both sets of fans.

Yet that's not borne out by what Justin Fashanu experienced at Torquay, Hearts and Aidrie after coming out. As Jim Held, his biographer said:

"The predictions made by John [Fashanu] and others that Justin had ruined his prospects of ever playing professional football again by coming out as gay had proved to be ill-founded. Footballers were not all virulent homophobes after all. Nor were they unable to cope with the delicacies of sharing physical intimacies of their professional lives with a gay man. Just as Fashanu was subverting stereotypes of gay men, perhaps his team mates were subverting stereotypes of straight footballers. Justin did not necessarily enjoy the banter about his sexuality as much as it appeared but he knew how to deal with it and how to make himself popular in the dressing room. Harder to deal with was the conflict he was unable to resolve between his Christian beliefs and his sexual orientation."

And this was in the 1990s.

 

[Billy the Fish]

To be fair I think Goldstone Rapper has a point. If a player had the stones to come out I'm sure it wouldn't be as bad as people are making out. I think anyone within the game who openly made it difficult for them would get slaughtered by the media. The neanderthal element of fans would do their thing, but it would be no different to what Beckham had to put up with for most of his career.