Homophobia issues in football

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Goldstone Rapper

Goldstone Rapper

Rediffusion PlayerofYear
Jan 19, 2009
14,865
BN3 7DE
The Large One said:
What naive, make-believe world do you live in to think the garden is that rosy?

Do you not hear the choruses from opposing supporters at Brighton matches? That is no exaggeration. That happens, week in, week out. They're aimed at thousands, knowing it won't hurt them. That will be as nothing in comparison to the grief one person gets when the Brighton fans get forgotten and he alone becomes the target.
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How circumstances are and how people respond to them are two separate things. You've collapsed the two together.

You are relating to people at the receiving end of prejudice as incapable of rising above any verbal abuse they may face, that they are incapable of showing resilience to some hostile songs.
 




The Large One

The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
Goldstone Rapper said:
How circumstances are and how people respond to them are two separate things. You've collapsed the two together.

You are relating to people at the receiving end of prejudice as incapable of rising above any verbal abuse they may face, that they are incapable of showing resilience to some hostile songs.
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I think the two are inter-twined.

We might be a bit more enlightened down here, but that doesn't necessarily follow for the rest of football.

If you believe that merely 'showing resilience to hostile songs' is all that's required, this would have happened long ago. However, in real life, people get physically attacked, cars vandalised, homes graffitied and so on just for being gay. A further change of attitudes is still required.
 


B

Baron Pepperpot

Active member
Jul 26, 2012
1,558
Brighton
A change in the law does not bring about a change in culture. But as I have said before, no-one can give me a uniform definition of what they understand homophobia to be anyway, because it has so many interpretations when we talk about terrace chants.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,392
The Large One said:
If you believe that merely 'showing resilience to hostile songs' is all that's required, this would have happened long ago. However, in real life, people get physically attacked, cars vandalised, homes graffitied and so on just for being gay. A further change of attitudes is still required.
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and yet "in real life" people come out all the time. i'd have thought footballers with all the entrenched rivalries and knuckle draggers are as likely to have a car vandalised because they play for the wrong team. so is there a perceived fear from the public or from team members keeping players in the closet? is there a problem at all?
 


The Large One

The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
beorhthelm said:
and yet "in real life" people come out all the time. i'd have thought footballers with all the entrenched rivalries and knuckle draggers are as likely to have a car vandalised because they play for the wrong team. so is there a perceived fear from the public or from team members keeping players in the closet? is there a problem at all?
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People 'come out' generally into a supportive environment. Can football provide that? I'm not sure, but am happy to have my head turned on that.

According to the earlier post, there are 29 league clubs who have signed up to the FvH campaign. There are others who sign up to general anti-homophobic considerations (BHA for one, of course). But of the 62 who haven't, it would be interesting to find out the reasons why not. Something they don't feel is necessary, or... something else?
 




H

Husty

Mooderator
Oct 18, 2008
11,996
The Large One said:
I think the two are inter-twined.

We might be a bit more enlightened down here, but that doesn't necessarily follow for the rest of football.

cars vandalised, homes graffitied and so on just for being gay. A further change of attitudes is still required.
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Do they really? In this country in this day and age? I'm sorry but I don't believe you. Feel free to prove me wrong.
 


Goldstone Rapper

Goldstone Rapper

Rediffusion PlayerofYear
Jan 19, 2009
14,865
BN3 7DE
The Large One said:
I think the two are inter-twined.

We might be a bit more enlightened down here, but that doesn't necessarily follow for the rest of football.

If you believe that merely 'showing resilience to hostile songs' is all that's required, this would have happened long ago. However, in real life, people get physically attacked, cars vandalised, homes graffitied and so on just for being gay. A further change of attitudes is still required.
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Britain's first openly gay footballer, Justin Fashanu, did not face any of what you mention in your fourth sentence, in the 1990s after coming out. Given the sea change in British general attitudes that solstes highlighted on the first page of this thread, not to mention the separate bubble that top players live in, I'd contend that the likelihood is even less, even though some quite vicious homophobic attacks sadly still happen. Still, the national trend was downward last time I read about it.
 
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Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,702
Guinness Boy said:
Because their Parliamentary colleagues will have to support them or risk being taken to pieces in The Guardian and potentially losing a substantial gay vote.

Whereas the footballers' worst nightmare will see him ostracised by his team mates, not picked and abused by both sets of fans.
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I don't buy that at all, and I don't think any of that would happen. Do you honestly believe Albion fans would abuse any Albion player who came out?

The silence is more to do with the legacy of Justin Fashanu and not wanting to be the first to announce it.
 








Lord Bracknell

Lord Bracknell

On fire
Jul 5, 2003
39,499
104 Upper Grosvenor Street, Mayfair






Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
34,496
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Pavilionaire said:
I don't buy that at all, and I don't think any of that would happen. Do you honestly believe Albion fans would abuse any Albion player who came out?

The silence is more to do with the legacy of Justin Fashanu and not wanting to be the first to announce it.
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Albion fans? No. But for there to actually be no problem an openly gay player would have to be able to play in, say, Burnley v Millwall without anyone mentioning his sexuality in commentary. That's not quite where we're at.
 










C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 18, 2009
4,751
Lord Bracknell said:
Only four years ago, in Brighton:

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/4691151.Lesbian_couple_beaten_up_in_homophobic_attack/

And within the last nine months:-

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/12/1...ated-and-traumatised-after-homophobic-attack/
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What's your point, violence is everywhere..............do you think that the gay community are only ever victims of crime?

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10624607.Man_raped_on_Brighton_beach/

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/9704534.Police_investigate_claims_of_male_rape_in_Kemp_Town/

http://gscene.com/sussex-police-seek-witnesses-to-rape/

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10247024.Family_s_shock_at_Brighton_cruising_spot/

By the way I don't doubt that homophobic abuse or violence exists...............but please...........how can we have perspective with cases like this are treated as a hate crime?

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/08/0...to-anti-gay-abuse-by-boy-dressed-as-a-monkey/
 


BBassic

BBassic

I changed this.
Jul 28, 2011
12,471
The terraces are a macrocosm of society at large that's why you get families, top blokes (and ladies), racists, homophobes and thugs.

Homophobia isn't a problem in football; it is a problem in society and needs to be treated as such. Only when it is dealt with by society as a whole will it start to depart from the terraces.
 




Lord Bracknell

Lord Bracknell

On fire
Jul 5, 2003
39,499
104 Upper Grosvenor Street, Mayfair
cunning fergus said:
What's your point, violence is everywhere..............do you think that the gay community are only ever victims of crime?
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My point was very simple. It was to illustrate that, contrary to what Husty had suggested, violent crimes are committed against LGBT people, in Brighton, still. These are "hate crimes", because the motivation of the perpetrators is the sexual orientation of the chosen victims.
 


Horses Arse

Horses Arse

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2004
4,571
here and there
Guinness Boy said:
An interesting question. To an extent you HAVE to talk about the chanting to put the other issues in to perspective.

Personally the chants don't offend me because I don't find being called gay offensive. I grew up in an era where, terrace chant wise, Northerners were all unemployed wife beaters, anyone with a slight burr was a tractor driving wurzel and scousers ate from bins and thieved. I don't think we actually thought ALL of them were like that and I can remember joining in. Where I didn't join in was with the monkey chants and banana throwing because I found them wrong morally both because I dislike racism AND because I thought they were bullying by targeting an individual.

So I don't think there are currently any footballers who have come out in this country and I suspect the first ones to will be the target of homophobic abuse individually unless by then it is understood to be completely unacceptable. Justin Fashanu was mercilessly targeted for example. By stopping the songs you reduce the risk of a player being targeted by fans when they come out. This is turn makes it more acceptable to the boot room and board room because there will not be a constant issue of the player being bullied by fans at away games.

I'm sure there would still be comments from team mates about not dropping the soap or kissing after a goal but to be honest if a player is brave enough to come out then he will be able to hold his own in banter and hopefully prove his worth on the pitch. The first ones to come out need to be really strong but if they survive the initial jibes then hopefully the atmosphere will normalise. Bring on the day when it is simply not an issue.

So to summarise I think there would be resentment currently from some players to an openly gay teammate and this in turn may stop managers / chairmen wanting to sign them. Stopping the chants we face isn't because of anyone particularly giving or taking offence - it's the first step to having a majority of fans think that homophobia is unacceptable and that itself is a building block to players coming out.
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I remember endlessly chanting "Elton John is a homosexual" and finding it very funny and clever. In my defence I was in my early ish teens. Part of the reason i found it funny was that i didn't really believe it as no one was 'out' in those days. Didn't like the racist chants though.
 


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