According to a report I read on the BBC a while back, Western intelligence agencies believe Iran trained Hamas fighters for the attack as well as helped Hamas plan it. So I doubt Iran was "surprised" !
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[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
According to a report I read on the BBC a while back, Western intelligence agencies believe Iran trained Hamas fighters for the attack as well as helped Hamas plan it. So I doubt Iran was "surprised" !
armchairclubber
Well-known member
I'll humour you on this occasion. Please forgive me if I don't indulge on further occasion.
No I am not a "religionist"
Though I'd suggest this whole conflict and its escalation is caused by "religionists"
Bidens consience and understanding of his own religion appears to affirm him in being of mind that it is both necessary and meritorious to support Israel and profit from arms trade in their Genocide againt Palestine and further escalations in the Middle East.
I think you'd agree with me that undeniably both Netenyahu (&State of Israel) and Hamas have "religionist" outlooks.
I'm unsure exactly of the religious perspective of both Sunak & Starmer (the limp double act) though they certainly appear to be in full support of Biden and the State of Israel.
From my own perspective I think it's more than possible to be of any faith here and yearn to see an immediate ceasefire, an end to this Genocide and working toward peace, just as it is possible to not be of faith and yearn to see the same.
I'll not apologise for posting a journalistic viewpoint that may challenge or conflict with that of mainstream or a biased media.
I've already made clear on this thread that I'd like to see an immediate ceasefire and an end to the Genocide taking place before, as others and myself have warned and foreseen, things escalate to other regions of the Middle East.
Having said all this, I have a strong suspicion you'll not listen to a word I have said, so I'll allow you to pigeon hole me into whichever category you feel appropriate
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I disagree on your statement about the BBC. I've been following the arguements from both sides via the BBC news website and it has seemed very balanced reporting. I'm obviously hoping for an SA win regardless of reporting.I'll humour you on this occasion. Please forgive me if I don't indulge on further occasion.
No I am not a "religionist"
Though I'd suggest this whole conflict and its escalation is caused by "religionists"
Bidens consience and understanding of his own religion appears to affirm him in being of mind that it is both necessary and meritorious to support Israel and profit from arms trade in their Genocide againt Palestine and further escalations in the Middle East.
I think you'd agree with me that undeniably both Netenyahu (&State of Israel) and Hamas have "religionist" outlooks.
I'm unsure exactly of the religious perspective of both Sunak & Starmer (the limp double act) though they certainly appear to be in full support of Biden and the State of Israel.
From my own perspective I think it's more than possible to be of any faith here and yearn to see an immediate ceasefire, an end to this Genocide and working toward peace, just as it is possible to not be of faith and yearn to see the same.
I'll not apologise for posting a journalistic viewpoint that may challenge or conflict with that of mainstream or a biased media.
To give just one example, over the last couple of days the BBC have chosen to broadcast only Israels defence at the ICJ of the accusation of commiting genocide, without broadcasting the prosecution case.
#ICJ4Israel: the evidence is all in. Why did the BBC broadcast only Israel's side? [STRONG LANGUAGE] - Vox Political
Western media organisations appear to have shown unacceptable bias in […]voxpoliticalonline.com
I've already made clear on this thread that I'd like to see an immediate ceasefire and an end to the Genocide taking place before, as others and myself have warned and foreseen, things escalate to other regions of the Middle East.
Having said all this, I have a strong suspicion you'll not listen to a word I have said, so I'll allow you to pigeon hole me into whichever category you feel appropriate
armchairclubber
Well-known member
Fair enough, is it not true that they only broadcast the defense initially? They may be more impartial now, happy to withdraw my comment if so.
Please see link.
Nope - I watched the SA submission Thursday.
armchairclubber
Well-known member
On the BBC I take it, OK thanks I'll withdraw comment and link
I think the detail was possibly in live streaming one not the other.
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nicko31
Well-known member
BAE Systems up 12% YTD....
aolstudios
Well-known member
& he's off. How about chemtrails?..
And according to this ECFR report they very much were.
Iran, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad: A marriage of convenience
Iran may not be directly behind the 7 October attacks on Israel, but Tehran has long worked to strengthen groups such as Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. The broader dynamics within the Middle…
ecfr.eu
Mate.
"Massive money spinners". How do you suppose the world would work if governments didn't have money? It's literally how the world economic system, GDP, borrowing, trade, everything we rely on works, including the building materials used and alcohol consumed in Western Australia.
I tell you what else are massive money spinners though - social media and video output of conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers. It's why Barton is heading off in that direction, he's seen how much money Le Tissier has made gaslighting idiots.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,975
Maybe you missed the submissions by SA on Thursday, the opening day of the hearings? Friday, it was Israel’s turn to defend the charges by SA of Israel’s breach of law.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,975
I think you may have missed the point of @sydney’s post;
The billions of dollars from war or pandemic profiteering has nothing to do ex-footballers and anti-vaxxers making money on twatter which is are pisspot amounts in comparison with the amount of money involved in the global arms trade or pharmaceuticals or banks underwriting debt to pay for it all. It is the global arms trade and private arms dealers along with pharmaceutical companies and banks that are the ‘money spinners’ and to what Sydney refers I imagine when suggesting governments lead countries into war with little concern on the burden that imposes on it’s civilians both economically and in their security (eg the latest attack on Yemen is likely to inflame and escalate the war embroiling the UK into deeper direct conflict with Iran backed terror groups rather than ‘control’ it) - but they yet prove to be massive money spinners (for the private sector).
In Ukraine alone, US arms manufacturers have raked in literally billions of dollars from contracts with the US government to provide for arms shipments to Ukraine; The Russia-Ukraine conflict is a huge profit making business to these companies;
As far as the war in Israel, I’m pretty sure in the boardrooms of Morgan Stanley, they are more interested in their portfolio accounts of aerospace and weapons manufacturers that they would be a the bank accounts of social media influencers.
‘Hamas has created additional demand’: Wall Street eyes big profits from war
Morgan Stanley and TD Bank hope for aerospace and weapons boon after a 7% value increase from start of Israel-Hamas conflict
www.theguardian.com
War doesn’t make money for governments, it costs tax payers money that goes in the defence budget to pay for the arms manufacturers to provide the weapons. Governments are funded by taxpayers money.
It is nonsense to suggest governments made a profit from Covid too - pandemics cause significant economic cost except for the big pharmaceutical companies who rake in literally billions and billions on profits from vaccines - a little bit more than the anti-vaxxers made by getting a few extra followers on their twatter accounts:
Big Pharma raked in USD 90 billion in profits with COVID-19 vaccines - SOMO
Pfizer, BioNTech, Moderna, and Sinovac made an extraordinary USD 90 billion in profits on their COVID-19 vaccines in 2021 and 2022.
www.somo.nl
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No you’ve completely misunderstood the point, which is simply “money makes the world go round”.I think you may have missed the point of @sydney’s post;
The billions of dollars from war or pandemic profiteering has nothing to do ex-footballers and anti-vaxxers making money on twatter which is are pisspot amounts in comparison with the amount of money involved in the global arms trade or pharmaceuticals or banks underwriting debt to pay for it all. It is the global arms trade and private arms dealers along with pharmaceutical companies and banks that are the ‘money spinners’ and to what Sydney refers I imagine when suggesting governments lead countries into war with little concern on the burden that imposes on it’s civilians both economically and in their security but yet prove to be massive money spinners (for the private sector).
In Ukraine alone, US arms manufacturers have raked in literally billions of dollars from contracts with the US government to provide for arms shipments to Ukraine; The Russia-Ukraine conflict is a huge profit making business to these companies;
As far as the war in Israel, I’m pretty sure in the boardrooms of Morgan Stanley, they are more interested in their portfolio accounts of aerospace and weapons manufacturers that they would be a the bank accounts of social media influencers.
‘Hamas has created additional demand’: Wall Street eyes big profits from war
Morgan Stanley and TD Bank hope for aerospace and weapons boon after a 7% value increase from start of Israel-Hamas conflict
War doesn’t make money for governments, it costs tax payers money that goes in the defence budget to pay for the arms manufacturers to provide the weapons. Governments are funded by taxpayers money.
It is laughable to suggest governments made a profit from Covid too - pandemics cause significant economic cost except for the big pharmaceutical companies who rake in literally billions and billions on profits from vaccines.
Big Pharma raked in USD 90 billion in profits with COVID-19 vaccines - SOMO
Pfizer, BioNTech, Moderna, and Sinovac made an extraordinary USD 90 billion in profits on their COVID-19 vaccines in 2021 and 2022.
In times of peace, arms companies simply switch their attention to making deterrents instead. China and Taiwan have never gone to war, but I lived in Taipei for three years and we had an American arms dealer who drank in our local ex pat bar. He was neither poor, nor short of work.
Distinguish, if you want, between “good” and “bad” money, but money will always be made unless we go back to swapping sticks with each other.
The reference to conspiracy refers to other conversations on other threads between him and me. You appear to have butted in with an incorrect assumption- again.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,975
That was your point but not the point @sydney was making and to which you were responding when you said.
My point (and relevant to this thread) is that governments don’t have money from the massive money spinners of war - they get their money from taxpayers, it is the banks, arms dealers and pharmaceutical companies that are the money profiteers from the things @sydney listed not governments as you suggest.
How do you know what he means? He doesn’t know himself half the time!
armchairclubber
Well-known member
No, I did hear excerpts of submissions from SA on Thursday.. though not via the BBC.
The objection being made by some was that this first day was not broadcast live (even by stream) by the BBC whereas Israels defense on Friday was, which wasn't seen as impartial.
Since led to believe this is not necessarily the case, so can be ignored.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,975
How do you then? Geez
. Instead of trying to discredit me or other posters who you perceive to be on the opposite ’side’ to you and again posting misinformation to argue what you think is a binary issue, why not answer my response to your inaccurate assertion that Maersk diverted its shipping ‘way before any western navy action in the area’ ? (post#3863)
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Because I picked up Sydney on a completely different point. I had no intention of wasting my Saturday thread hogging with you.How do you then? Geez
Also because it’s irrelevant. The Houthis are terrorists carrying out illegal attacks on shipping. I’m glad they’re getting bombed.
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- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,975
Ditto
. Well let’s hope it worked (already the US is carrying out more strikes, with us committed to more) and doesn’t escalate the Middle Eastern conflict even more than it is and beyond the point it can be reigned in - that is my only concern and reservation. If we (the US/UK ) are sliding into a full scale confrontation with Hezbollah and the Houthis, I hope at some point, the Government takes a breath and consults Parliament on whether this ongoing intervention to support Israel in their war against Hamas (because that is how Iran-backed interests will view these attacks) is conducive to finding a longterm peaceful and equitable settlement for all involved or whether increased diplomacy and greater pressure on Israel to negotiate a ceasefire is the better path. It is incredulous to call the attack on Yemen, ‘self-defence’ though (imo) that was being provided for by shooting down drones and missiles in the Red Sea by a proper international force that wanted little or no part of these US-led-UK strikes on Yemen. It is in the least a defence of shopping and oil interests, at worst, a retaliatory attack in response to Iran backed attacks on American airforce bases in Iraq. Whatever, it is, it is certainly NOT irrelevant.Bias alert - link to CND
Statement on the UK/US attack on Yemen -
The attack on Yemen by US, UK and other forces is a dangerous escalation of the war in the Middle East. It is a direct consequence of their governments' support for Israel's three-month attack on Gaza and the Palestinian people more generally. We have argued throughout that this support is...
cnduk.org
By bombing Yemen, the west risks repeating its own mistakes | Mohamad Bazzi
Instead of retaliating against the Houthi militia, the US and its allies should be pressing Israel to end its invasion of Gaza and accept a ceasefire, says writer and academic Mohamad Bazzi
www.theguardian.com
EDIT to add further link to UN Convoy to Yemen
Middle East latest: Hamas releases hostage video; Hezbollah dismisses 'worthless' Israeli claims on commanders killed
Joe Biden has signed a $95bn security package after months of delays - including around $26bn for Israel. A US envoy has said Israel must do everything possible to avoid famine in Gaza. Listen to a Daily podcast on how the conflict is worsening Yemen's humanitarian crisis as you scroll.
news.sky.com
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chip
Active member
I was just curious as to your biblical quote at the end of your posts. I used religionist as it means a person adhering to a religion and it seems that this particular conflict has turned into some sort of belief system. I agree with you that religionists are significantly responsible for this conflict. I just wonder why this conflict gets so much attention compared to all the others going on in the world. None of it is really surprising, same as it ever was and this too will pass.I'll humour you on this occasion. Please forgive me if I don't indulge on further occasion.
No I am not a "religionist"
Though I'd suggest this whole conflict and its escalation is caused by "religionists"
Bidens consience and understanding of his own religion appears to affirm him in being of mind that it is both necessary and meritorious to support Israel and profit from arms trade in their Genocide againt Palestine and further escalations in the Middle East.
I think you'd agree with me that undeniably both Netenyahu (&State of Israel) and Hamas have "religionist" outlooks.
I'm unsure exactly of the religious perspective of both Sunak & Starmer (the limp double act) though they certainly appear to be in full support of Biden and the State of Israel.
From my own perspective I think it's more than possible to be of any faith here and yearn to see an immediate ceasefire, an end to this Genocide and working toward peace, just as it is possible to not be of faith and yearn to see the same.
I'll not apologise for posting a journalistic viewpoint that may challenge or conflict with that of mainstream or a biased media.
I've already made clear on this thread that I'd like to see an immediate ceasefire and an end to the Genocide taking place before, as others and myself have warned and foreseen, things escalate to other regions of the Middle East.
Having said all this, I have a strong suspicion you'll not listen to a word I have said, so I'll allow you to pigeon hole me into whichever category you feel appropriate