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[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel



Greenbag50

Well-known member
Jun 1, 2016
393
Massive air strikes and ground attacks inside Israel by Hamas and other terrorist groups.
Israel declares star of war. Hamas terrorists roaming streets of southern Israel shooting anyone they see.
Huge geopolitical/economic impacts.
Iran potentially sponsoring with head of Iran sending anti-Jewish messages in recent days.
 


















SeagullinExile

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2010
5,867
London








peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
11,664
If you oppress people, remove them from there lands and kill them on a regular basis like the Israelis do you cannot expect them not to rise up.

Obviously goes without saying that violence of any kind is tragic.
And your sympathy for Hamas also extends to Al Qaeda ? maybe the oppressed People of Ireland who lost part of their lands, "rising up" as the IRA to bomb England was understandable.

Of course im referring to the non violent leaders like Gerry Adams.
 




Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
22,104
Brighton
If you oppress people, remove them from there lands and kill them on a regular basis like the Israelis do you cannot expect them not to rise up.
Obviously goes without saying that violence of any kind is tragic.
You sound like a terrorist sympathiser

Those against violence are never sympathetic to terrorism. Being sympathetic to their cause is something entirely different. For example, I support a United Ireland but have always loathed and been utterly disgusted by the subhuman IRA for their terrorism.

For me, the leadership in both Gaza and Israel is utterly horrific. The upshot of this is that hundreds, if not thousands of innocent lives will be lost over the coming days. It’s a human tragedy and it’s awful.

For me, Israel have had the power to stop this type of thing happening by helping create a Palestinian homeland and not moving their citizens onto disputed land, but they’ve refused opening the door to the worst sort of people taking control in Gaza.
 


Skuller

Well-known member
Jun 3, 2017
282
What a mess!

Mark Sykes and Francois Picot must be delighted with their work.
Yea, I know, and the Ottomans, the Germans (parts 1 & 2), the Arabs themselves, and the Israelis themselves, and countless other vested interests, were all totally inconsequential in the creation of this mess.
 


SeagullinExile

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2010
5,867
London
Another ignorant stupid comment . Israel was mandated by the UN and was then attacked by its neighbours within days . It fought a war it had to win to avoid it being destroyed and kept the land it won for security reasons .
You can dress it up how you like, but the Irgun/Stern gang actions up until 1948 were campaigns of pure terror.
 






Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
5,262
Another ignorant stupid comment . Israel was mandated by the UN and was then attacked by its neighbours within days . It fought a war it had to win to avoid it being destroyed and kept the land it won for security reasons .
Just because the UN mandated the occupation of land on Palestinian territory, it doesn’t de facto make it morally “right” - the relationship between Israel and the ‘occupied’ territories of East Jerusalem, Gazza and the Left Bank is is a complex situation that doesn’t merit simplifying it into a black and white equation that justifies anyone calling either side of the argument ‘ignorant’ or ‘stupid’ - it may be a platitude to say it but nevertheless its a truism that what to one man is a ‘terrorist, to another man is a ‘freedom fighter’


Zionism and Arab Nationalism are at opposite ends of an impossible spectrum of unresolved conflicting ideals and understandings of social justice - with the majority of both Israelis and Palestinians wanting to live in freedom from fear, oppression and with their fundamental rights to self-determination respected.
 




beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,477
No one is going to win this argument or conflict, too many rights and too many wrongs on both counts.
seems both sides have no genuine interest in peaceful settlement, use the conflict to boost their political aims. wont ever be peace between them.
 




wellquickwoody

Many More Voting Years
NSC Patron
Aug 10, 2007
13,669
Melbourne
You sound like a terrorist sympathiser
Only one winner in this conflict, and that will be Israel.
That said, the Israeli government and armed forces must (but won’t) accept responsibility for this happening due to the theft and settlement policy on Arab land, and their constant abuse of human rights against the Palestinian people.
 


peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
11,664
Just because the UN mandated the occupation of land on Palestinian territory, it doesn’t de facto make it morally “right” - the relationship between Israel and the ‘occupied’ territories of East Jerusalem, Gazza and the Left Bank is is a complex situation that doesn’t merit simplifying it into a black and white equation that justifies anyone calling either side of the argument ‘ignorant’ or ‘stupid’ - it may be a platitude to say it but nevertheless its a truism that what to one man is a ‘terrorist, to another man is a ‘freedom fighter’


Zionism and Arab Nationalism are at opposite ends of an impossible spectrum of unresolved conflicting ideals and understandings of social justice - with the majority of both Israelis and Palestinians wanting to live in freedom from fear, oppression and with their fundamental rights to self-determination respected.
I lived in Israel 8 months in the 90s and had both Jewish and Palestinian friends who lived and worked together harmoniously, the problems in and around Gaza is not the whole picture of Israeli/Palestinian co existence.

They all got on and all wanted to just live in peace. That peace can never come with "winner takes all" or frustated terrorist attacks.

As for the historical land ownership issue, I'm with Hugo Rune (above) entirely on the issue of historically a United Ireland but against the IRA.

Using the same calculus, much of the land on which Israel now exists (not all admittedly) was also previously a Jewish homeland before it became Palestinian Arab land and then primarily Israeli Jewish land again. Go to Jerusalem and look at the Al Aqsa Mosque, it was built in the 600s AD right where the Jewish Solomons temple had sit for 100 of years as the head of the Jewish homeland.

If you can definitively answer the question of Ireland and keep all pre/post NI communities happy, maybe you're qualified on Israel/Palestine too.

If you can't, then you won't be either.

It's too complex, it depends from where you draw lines in history and will never be resolved by violence and nor will possesion being 9/10ths of the law bring peace either.
 


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