[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel

[borat]

You sound like a terrorist sympathiser

You sound like not a particularly smart individual.

I support people right to fight oppression and apartheid. Ask yourself this question - if you were kicked out of your home, told where you can and can't go, harassed daily by IDF and police, and had members of your family killed.... what would be your reaction? Just sigh deeply and say "oh well"?

Again not condoning violence especially against civilians but do I get where it comes from... absolutely yes.

Let's not forget the power imbalance is massive with one side being the oppressor. This is not some 50/50 conflict

As other posters have said, the most harm from yesterdays events will be suffered by the Palestinian people.

If anyone wants to learn a bit more what it's like to live under Israeli Apartheid this is a really brilliant (but tragic) interview.

 

[LamieRobertson]

People are dying and yet all some can do is throw insults at each other ..be great to discuss without the personal insults

 

[jackanada]

Another ignorant stupid comment . Israel was mandated by the UN and was then attacked by its neighbours within days . It fought a war it had to win to avoid it being destroyed and kept the land it won for security reasons .

But can we agree that though the creation of Israel was mandated by the UN the decision to drive out the native population, bulldoze their homes, and slaughter many thousands in the process was entirely their own?

 

[Bozza]

*sigh*

This topic is incredibly complex and emotive. Please discuss with respect of the views of others, and don't immediately resort to insults.

I've had enough of what should be decent well thought-out discussions, that may serve to educate those of us with limited knowledge of some subjects, being ruined by those who do not respect others and too readily turn to abuse.

I will not hesitate to quickly:

1. Remove people from threads if they are showing a lack of respect.
2. Ban people from the entire site if they show a repeated pattern of the same behaviour.

Stop and read what you are about to post before you post it. It's perfectly possible to disagree with some respectfully and without resorting to abuse and insults.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But can we agree that though the creation of Israel was mandated by the UN the decision to drive out the native population, bulldoze their homes, and slaughter many thousands in the process was entirely their own?

Jordan offered land to Palestine, but they refused, choosing to fight instead, in 1947. It was all a horrible mess, with Jordan, Palestine, Britain and the UN all trying to sort it out. As previously said, there are many wrongs on all sides, including Britain, who was occupying Palestine at the time.

 

[Mustafa II]

Reports of Israeli civilians being kidnapped and taken back to Gaza.

Hamas attacking barracks with unprepared troops during a holiday period.

Bizarre & horrifying.

 

[Questions]

“Read your bible”
That’s what my sister says if the subject of Palestine comes up.
“The Jews were peaceful nomadic tribe who decided one day to stop being nomadic.”

 

[Triggaaar]

You sound like not a particularly smart individual.

I support people right to fight oppression and apartheid. Ask yourself this question - if you were kicked out of your home, told where you can and can't go, harassed daily by IDF and police, and had members of your family killed.... what would be your reaction? Just sigh deeply and say "oh well"?

Being kicked out of their homes and harassed daily - which side are we talking about here?

Let's not forget the power imbalance is massive with one side being the oppressor.

Israel's neighbours are not peaceful towards them and it was their aggression that lead to the 6 day war. They also state that Israel has no right to exist and it is their aim to remove Israel. I am against Israel occupying Palestinian land, but it's wrong to suggest that only Israel are to blame for the overall conflicts in the region.

 

[Titanic]

Israeli PM statement in full:​

"Citizens of Israel. We are at war, not an operation, not an escalation, a war.
"This morning Hamas launched a murderous surprise attack against the state of Israel and its citizens. We've been at it since early morning.
"I convened the heads of the security system, first of all I instructed to cleanse the settlements of the terrorists who had infiltrated - this operation is being carried out during these hours.
"At the same time, I ordered an extensive reserve mobilization and a retaliatory war with a strength and scope that the enemy had never known.
"The enemy will pay a price he has never known. In the meantime, I call on all citizens of Israel to strictly obey the instructions of the army and the instructions of the Home Command.
"We are in a war and we will win it."

 

[Titanic]

UK PM: Israel has right to defend itself​

UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, who is responding to the unfolding situation.
He says: "I am shocked by this morning's attacks by Hamas terrorists against Israeli citizens."
He continues:

Quote Message: Israel has an absolute right to defend itself. We're in contact with Israeli authorities, and British nationals in Israel should follow travel advice."
Israel has an absolute right to defend itself. We're in contact with Israeli authorities, and British nationals in Israel should follow travel advice."

 

[jackanada]

Jordan offered land to Palestine, but they refused, choosing to fight instead, in 1947. It was all a horrible mess, with Jordan, Palestine, Britain and the UN all trying to sort it out. As previously said, there are many wrongs on all sides, including Britain, who was occupying Palestine at the time.

Not exactly an answer. I always feel it would be nice to agree on some basic facts before we really get stuck into an argument.
It is possible to defend Israel while at least recognizing the bare facts that hundreds of thousands were displaced and many thousands murdered in the process. To suggest otherwise while perhaps not being in there same ballpark as Holocaust denial is at least in the parking structure of offensively wrong takes on history.

 

[jonny.rainbow]

You sound like a terrorist sympathiser

Is it better to sympathise with state sponsored terrorism against Palestinians?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

UK PM: Israel has right to defend itself​

UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, who is responding to the unfolding situation.
He says: "I am shocked by this morning's attacks by Hamas terrorists against Israeli citizens."
He continues:

I thought we'd moved to a more nuanced position on the Israel Palestine conflict? There is a war going on, both sides regularly conduct incursions, fire weapons and kidnap members of the other side. Interesting we're still referring to one side in the conflict as terrorists, and saying that one side can defend its territory but not affording the other the same right. It doesn't seem a true reflection of the reality.

 

[stewart_weir]

Massive air strikes and ground attacks inside Israel by Hamas and other terrorist groups.
Israel declares star of war. Hamas terrorists roaming streets of southern Israel shooting anyone they see.
Huge geopolitical/economic impacts.
Iran potentially sponsoring with head of Iran sending anti-Jewish messages in recent days.

It's the inevitability of history when you push a group of people into a corner and with a far right government in place there was only ever going to be this outcome of another uprising.

 

[SeagullinExile]

We should also remember that The Lehi militant group attempted an alliance with Nazi Germany to fight the British in WW2.

 

[GT49er]

Neither side comes out smelling of roses. Were the UN right to establish a homeland for jews after World War II? - yes, too right they were. Were the displaced arabs justified in feeling angry? - yes.
Problem was, rather than try and mend fences and settle their differences, maybe supporting an independent Palestinian state with full UN membership, the Israelis from the start set out to be bad neighbours, forever invading arab lands and stealing more territory to build settlements. No idea where we can go from here now, unfortunately. Only certainty is that people will be killed.
Of course, the US could have stopped this years ago, by threatening to withdraw all support for Israel unless they handed the settlements back and stuck to their own borders, as given to them by the UN, and supported a Palestine independent homeland, but the Zionist lobby in the US was too strong and too blinkered to allow that to happen.
RIP the many people about to die.

 

[BadFish]

My thoughts are with the innocents suffering in this situation.

It's a bollocks situation that has not been dealt with year upon year.

 

[Rookie]

Dead Female IDF soldier being paraded through streets of Gaza.

This will escalate quickly

Unfortunately I saw the video, it’s sick. Kids spitting on a dead body with ‘men’ happily driving through the streets parading the body.
How can anyone justify that

 

[jakarta]

Wouldn't want to be in Gaza over the next few days, surely a massive retaliation is on its way?

 

[Bakero]

Unfortunately I saw the video, it’s sick. Kids spitting on a dead body with ‘men’ happily driving through the streets parading the body.
How can anyone justify that

It's grim. War is grim. An outside observer sees people spitting on a dead human. But for the people involved that body represents an occupying force responsible for their oppression and the deaths of their kith and kin.

That's not a justification but an explanation.