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[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel



Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
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Isn’t it only us (abstained) and the US (against) who are not for calls for an immediate ceasefire from the UN?
I have no time at all for Sunak but I don't blame him on this occasions for not engaging with gesture politics.

The entire decision whether to do something, anything from boycotting Israel to invading it, is in the hands of America.

Anyway, my former union boycotted Israel a couple of years ago, so some people are doing *all they can*. I'm sure the leaders of my former union are giving themselves a massive cuddle over their important and righteous stance.

As for the strange person above who seems to think the entire middle east crisis was caused by Tony Blair.....

Its no wonder the world can't help a facilitation of a solution here. The world seems to be full of people who don't really understand much, and don't really care. (I don't mean you, btw; fair question).
 




DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
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Jan 3, 2012
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I have no time at all for Sunak but I don't blame him on this occasions for not engaging with gesture politics.

The entire decision whether to do something, anything from boycotting Israel to invading it, is in the hands of America.

Anyway, my former union boycotted Israel a couple of years ago, so some people are doing *all they can*. I'm sure the leaders of my former union are giving themselves a massive cuddle over their important and righteous stance.

As for the strange person above who seems to think the entire middle east crisis was caused by Tony Blair.....

Its no wonder the world can't help a facilitation of a solution here. The world seems to be full of people who don't really understand much, and don't really care. (I don't mean you, btw; fair question).
All Tony Blair’s fault? Of course! Why couldn’t I see that!

It’s got nothing to do with tensions in the Middle East which go back not decades, not centuries but millennia!
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
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Faversham
The best commentary on this can be seen in Last Week Tonight.

It is really fair and balanced. There are plenty of Palestinians that oppose Hamas and plenty of Israelis that oppose their government.

More bombs dropped in Gaza than the US managed in a whole year in Afghanistan. Hamas still firing missiles and Israel still bombing. Pack in in all of you.

A very depressing watch.
I have a vague recollection of a small boy getting beaten up by a bigger boy in the school playground, and despite being bloodied and bowed the small boy kept getting up and running after the bigger boy and starting the fight over again, whereupon (you can guess the rest). The situation ceased only when an even bigger person (a teacher) intervened.

The conflict will never cease until the US steps in, chucks the 'settlers' out of the west bank, disarms Gaza and rebuilds it, and persuades Israel to adopt a system that does not allow a charismatic leader to run riot (Bibi has been changing laws, in much the same way Braverman wants the UK to change its laws, for extreme right wing expedience - beware the slide into fascism).

And none of this is ever going to happen, so Israel will carry on doing whatever it's population votes for. It's population, like that in various other parts of the world, seems now obsessed with rabid nationalism (which is why it keeps the likes of Bibi in power, despite all he has done to reveal what he really is).

I have no idea what 'we' can do. How many candle-lit vigils can the candle industry sustain? How many 'Blairite war mongering' labour MPs can we deselect or vote out (to be replaced by, er, pro-Palestinian, er, conservatives? ???)? How many US products like MacDonalds and Disneyland can we boycott?

I suppose if we can learn one thing from this it is how powerless the UK is on the world stage, and how powerless we humble voters are.
 
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borat

Well-known member
Jul 16, 2003
467
Too little too late by Starmer's Blairite war mongerering shadow cabinet.
Peter Kyle get a grip.
Indeed. Peter Kyle is a Labour Friends of Israel Chair so don't hope for too much action from him.

Odd form of democracy we are developing in the UK where out politicians on both parties are subject to heavy influence from a hard right foreign Apartheid state that is and has for decades commited horrendous war crimes and occupied another people. In a sane world Israel would be a pariah state.

Our morals and how they are applied depend wholly on who is the perpetrator. Saudi Arabia is another example.


It continues out of office - Tony Blair has continued to line his pockets over the years from that (and other despotic) regimes.

LIke others have said, ultimately we are just the tail of the dog being wagged by the US where their democracy is more compromised than ours - heavily influenced by powerful lobby groups (including non-Israeli ones -NRA, Oil etc)
 
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Justice

Dangerous Idiot
Jun 21, 2012
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Indeed. Peter Kyle is a Labour Friends of Israel Chair so don't hope for too much action from him.

Odd form of democracy we are developing in the UK where out politicians on both parties are subject to heavy influence from a hard right foreign Apartheid state that is and has for decades commited horrendous war crimes and occupied another people. In a sane world Israel would be a pariah state.

Our morals and how they are applied depend wholly on who is the perpetrator. Saudi Arabia is another example.


It continues out of office - Tony Blair has continued to line his pockets over the years from that (and other despotic) regimes.

LIke others have said, ultimately we are just the tail of the dog being wagged by the US where their democracy is more compromised than ours - heavily influenced by powerful lobby groups (including non-Israeli ones -NRA, Oil etc)
Every conflict in the Middle East is ultimately about oil or gas and Gaza is rich in both.
 




Zeberdi

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Oct 20, 2022
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borat

Well-known member
Jul 16, 2003
467
Every conflict in the Middle East is ultimately about oil or gas and Gaza is rich in both.
Control of routes to deliver oil / other supplies is often a factor. Good example is is the war in Yemen where due to its geographic location, control of the ports are crucial for maritime trade. The humanitarian situation in Yemen is horrific but has drifted out of the news.
 




aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
4,500
brighton
Control of routes to deliver oil / other supplies is often a factor. Good example is is the war in Yemen where due to its geographic location, control of the ports are crucial for maritime trade. The humanitarian situation in Yemen is horrific but has drifted out of the news.
No Jews, no news
 


borat

Well-known member
Jul 16, 2003
467
No Jews, no news
Interesting "analysis".. 🤔

Firstly, the war has been going on for 8 years so "news fatigue" sets in. Secondly Ukraine/Russia situation has taken over coverage. Lastly the US and UK are selling vast amount of arms and giving strategic support to Saudi Arabia - who have committed multiple war crimes.


It's therefore not helpful for our media to keep highlighting the situation. Outside the UK bubble e.g news from the "Global South" etc the situation is covered regularly.
 


shingle

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2004
3,141
Lewes
The whole situation is utterly depressing, with no end in sight. In my opinion there will never be a proper peace and anyone who thinks that a two state solution is the answer might be in for a shock if it were ever to happen. When I used to travel to Israel/the West Bank, I sometimes used to talk about the 'two state solution' to my new found Palestinian friends and some would answer .... aaahhh but what would you do if someone took over your house and then offered to give you back several of the bedrooms.... well.

I also think that some posters on this thread need to take a step back for their own sanity, there's nothing anyone on here can do, no petitions or marches or anything else, we are impotent, only Israel's major backer, the US, has any influence, and an incandescant full of rage Israel will only stop when they believe that they have eradicated Hamas. Also, there appears to be little or no appetite for a ceasefire among the ordinary people of Israel, they are standing right behind their government.

If I was PM I would have called for a ceasefire along time ago when it became clear that the collateral damage to the innocent population became more important than the near impossible task of eradicating the psychos of Hamas from within that population
 
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beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,310
The whole situation is utterly depressing, with no end in sight. In my opinion there will never be a proper peace and anyone who thinks that a two state solution is the answer might be in for a shock if it were ever to happen. When I used to travel to Israel/the West Bank, I sometimes used to talk about the 'two state solution' to my new found Palestinian friends and some would answer .... aaahhh but what would you do if someone took over your house and then offered to give you back several of the bedrooms.... well.
what's their solution then? all of the land returned to the Palastinians and the Jewish removed from Israel? the two state solution is a poor solution, while all the others available are worse.
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,189
what's their solution then? all of the land returned to the Palastinians and the Jewish removed from Israel? the two state solution is a poor solution, while all the others available are worse.
Fast forward a hundred years, or maybe even fifty years, and there will be a solution. Maybe even a good solution. Just like there will be a united Ireland and a single Korea. Tho doubtless similar geo-political shit will pop up elsewhere on the globe to take its place and fill the vacuum. Same as it ever was
 
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shingle

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2004
3,141
Lewes
what's their solution then? all of the land returned to the Palastinians and the Jewish removed from Israel? the two state solution is a poor solution, while all the others available are worse.
I don't know, why are you asking me? I would like to see a working two state solution, I would love to see a peaceful solution, but based on conversations with some Palestinians, and my basic understanding of the region I'm not sure it will work long term. Also, do you think that the 100's of thousands of Palestinians that have just had the fcuk bombed out of them are going to be in any sort of conciliatory mood.
 
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beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,310
Fast forward a hundred years, or maybe even fifty years, and there will be a solution. Maybe even a good solution. Just like there will be a united Ireland and a single Korea. Tho doubtless similar geo-political shit will pop up elsewhere on the globe to take its place and fill the vacuum. Same as it ever was
not sure thats the same thing. the average irishman probably see themselves as Irish, whether Republic or NI. the people could, mostly, accept a unification. i expect its similar in Korea, both sides see themselves as Korean, with some different idealogy and leaderships that embed that. Palestinans and Israelis will never see themselves as the same on a fundemental level.

I don't know, why are you asking me? I would like to see a working two state solution, I would love to see a peaceful solution, but based on conversations with some Palestinians, and my basic understanding of the region I'm not sure it will work long term. Also, do you think that the 100's of thousands of Palestinians that have just had the fcuk bombed out of them are going to be in any sort of conciliatory mood.
completey agree they arent in a mood for that right now. the point is arguements against the two state solution have one outcome - the other side gets cast out. it's implicit, like when they sing from the river to the sea. its one side or the other, there is no middle ground unless they have two states or (probably even more unlikely) Palestinians have equal rights as full citizens of Israel. same thing in the end no more settlements, recognising the others right exist peacefully, etc.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,112
Faversham


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,112
Faversham
Fast forward a hundred years, or maybe even fifty years, and there will be a solution. Maybe even a good solution. Just like there will be a united Ireland and a single Korea. Tho doubtless similar geo-political shit will pop up elsewhere on the globe to take its place and fill the vacuum. Same as it ever was
Agree.

With the proviso that past conflicts have sometimes been settled by genocide. It's easier, if you have the determination (and lack imagination).
 




essbee1

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2014
4,133
what's their solution then? all of the land returned to the Palastinians and the Jewish removed from Israel? the two state solution is a poor solution, while all the others available are worse.
Fast forward a hundred years, or maybe even fifty years, and there will be a solution. Maybe even a good solution. Just like there will be a united Ireland and a single Korea. Tho doubtless similar geo-political shit will pop up elsewhere on the globe to take its place and fill the vacuum. Same as it ever was
Good post. The inevitable end point that we, as human beings, seem unable to grasp. And, so it will go on until AI takes over. ;)
 


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