[News] Greta Thunberg and the boat

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Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
10,225
The thing that comes out of this to me is that Greta and the others on that boat would have known they were putting their lives in serious danger.

That they did it anyway, out of solidarity with the people of Gaza with no obvious gain for themselves, says a lot about their bravery.

I very much admire Greta Thunberg
 


Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patron
Jul 17, 2003
21,145
I’m sure you have a link (a reliable one) which shows this.
IMG_2404.jpeg
IMG_2405.jpeg
 


Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
10,542
On NSC for over two decades...






Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
61,041
Faversham
More stats needed, what percentage of asylum seekers get granted asylum, and what percentage of arrivals from small boats get granted asylum?

The answer to the first question is 47% (in 2024) at the initial stage:

That's quite high.
Presumably at the point asylum is granted those that came here illegally cease to be 'illegal'.

(Let's not forget that the last tory government defined all people arriving here 'unannounced' with the status of asylum seeker as, by definition, an 'illegal' asylum seeker, since Tory HMG declared the only way to seek asylum here legally is to apply from another country, and a country not deemed 'safe' by the government, whether that being country of origin or that of transit such as France. This means that by definition anyone arriving here unannounced from France is an 'illegal' asylum seeker. Or was that all meaningless lying bullshit from the Tories? It never made much sense to me.).

So does the 47% apply just to those applying legally, or does it apply to all seekers, legal and illegal?
And if it includes the illegal, how come the UK is even considering asylum claims from illegal asylum seekers?
(I am assuming that the rubric has not been changed yet by labour).
 




Zeberdi

“Vorsprung durch Technik”
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
8,928
I have no problem with the rest of your post - but as @Javeaseagull indicates, what you're describing here is 'piracy'. Israel and their allies may view this as 'legal' - but then of course they would. The flotilla is of no threat to Israel and all occupants were unarmed.

Here's a BBC article describing how Israel deemed their raid of the Free Gaza Flotilla way back in May 2010 killing nine crew - as perfectly legal. Note the framing of the story by the BBC. The Israeli inquiry judgement is up front and centre, whilst the separate UN Inquiry, saying that the Israeli Navy had shown an "unacceptable level of brutality" is only mentioned fleetingly.

Israel consider their blockade of aid for Gaza as perfectly legal and moral etc, as they have done since the early '90s. And their US, British and European allies don't seem to disagree.
It was edited before you even posted!!

You didn’t read/understand enough of my post to have realised in the context of what I was saying, that was an obvious typo? Nor realise my stand on this after months of posting on the Gaze thread? 🙄:facepalm:

As I said, they were seized in international waters under a British flag so my post should have said ILLEGAL - The only act that was illegal was Israel intercepting the vessel in international waters.

(and further, as I said, it’s debatable that even if they had actually got through the blockade and entered Gaza , Greta & co would have been committing an illegal act since Gaza is not in the State of Israel as the OP assumed.)
 




WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
29,483
Point of interest, what percentage seek asylum on arrival and what percentage disappear into the country as soon as they arrive?
1. North of 90%
2. Those claiming Asylum will be given a phone and registered, then be moved to accommodation where they await their decision, many are out working in the Black Economy though which is abhorrent

Just to make sure I understand this right, you are saying over 90% seek asylum on arrival (probably nearer 100%), then totally ignoring the second part of his question about what percentage disappear, and then adding further assumptions of your own about Asylum seekers working in the Black economy ?
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,543
That's quite high.
Presumably at the point asylum is granted those that came here illegally cease to be 'illegal'.

(Let's not forget that the last tory government defined all people arriving here 'unannounced' with the status of asylum seeker as, by definition, an 'illegal' asylum seeker, since Tory HMG declared the only way to seek asylum here legally is to apply from another country, and a country not deemed 'safe' by the government, whether that being country of origin or that of transit such as France. This means that by definition anyone arriving here unannounced from France is an 'illegal' asylum seeker. Or was that all meaningless lying bullshit from the Tories? It never made much sense to me.).

So does the 47% apply just to those applying legally, or does it apply to all seekers, legal and illegal?
And if it includes the illegal, how come the UK is even considering asylum claims from illegal asylum seekers?
(I am assuming that the rubric has not been changed yet by labour).
travelling across borders, entering a country without documentation is illegal. once in a country, claiming asylum is not illegal. when you do so you become a legal immigrant/asylum seeker. those that evade Border Force/Home Office and make their way without an asylum claim remain illegal immigrants. boats make it very easy for Border Force to catch and detain you, verses the older routes on the ferries.
 






Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
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Jul 17, 2003
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beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,543


Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,621
I think you’ll agree that many of those seeking asylum work in the Black Economy

It is very probably true but what neither you nor the Telegraph do is consider why that might be...... of course you don't.

Maybe you might like to reflect beyond the 'easy money' poisonous headlines of the Telegraph rag; maybe you might not, but here's hoping by offering the following thoughts.....

Asylum seekers may participate in the black economy due to a combination of factors, including: a lack of legal work rights, the urgent need for income to survive, and potential exploitation by unscrupulous employers. They may also face difficulties in accessing legal employment due to language barriers, cultural differences, and the need to quickly establish a livelihood.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

  • Lack of Legal Work Rights:
    Asylum seekers often have limited or no legal right to work while awaiting a decision on their application. This restriction forces them to seek employment in the informal economy to meet their basic needs.
  • Financial Necessity:
    The decision-making process for asylum claims can be lengthy and uncertain, and support provided by the government may be inadequate. Asylum seekers may need to find income to cover basic expenses like housing, food, and transportation.
  • Exploitation:
    Some employers may be willing to hire asylum seekers without proper documentation, creating an environment of exploitation where workers are often underpaid, work in unsafe conditions, and lack access to legal protections.
  • Barriers to Legal Employment:
    Asylum seekers may face challenges in finding and securing legitimate jobs, such as language barriers, cultural differences, and a lack of experience or recognition of their qualifications in the new country.
  • Social Networks and Informal Support:
    Asylum seekers may rely on social networks and informal support systems, which can include working in the black economy, to access necessary resources.
  • Waiting Period:
    The lengthy wait for a decision on an asylum application can be a significant obstacle to accessing legitimate employment, further pushing some into the black economy.
In summary, the black economy offers asylum seekers a means of survival and income in the absence of legal work permits and opportunities, but it comes with inherent risks and vulnerabilities.
 
Last edited:


:J)

Active member
Jul 7, 2003
664
Brighton
It was edited before you even posted!!

You didn’t read/understand enough of my post to have realised in the context of what I was saying, that was an obvious typo? Nor realise my stand on this after months of posting on the Gaze thread? 🙄:facepalm:

As I said, they were seized in international waters under a British flag so my post should have said ILLEGAL - The only act that was illegal was Israel intercepting the vessel in international waters.

(and further, as I said, it’s debatable that even if they had actually got through the blockade and entered Gaza , Greta & co would have been committing an illegal act since Gaza is not in the State of Israel as the OP assumed.)
Fair enough, Zeberdi. I'm not in the habit of constantly refreshing the page whilst composing replies on NSC, so wouldn't have seen your edit before posting.

As for your :rolleyes::facepalm: emojis...? Whilst I agree with much of what you say on this issue in your original post on this thread and elsewhere, it's not a given that we'll see eye to eye on everything. I genuinely thought that in this instance you were playing devil's advocate and arguing from an Israeli 'legal' viewpoint, hence my reference to the Free Gaza Flotilla from 2010.

Anyway - apologies for the misunderstanding and let's leave it at that.
 




The Clamp

Well-known member
Jan 11, 2016
27,482
West is BEST
FWIW I think Greta is great. In 50 yrs time our kids will be asking why nobody listened to her.

Because we all wanted to drive to work every day in our own cars and have our apples in plastic bags.
 


Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
27,336
Sussex by the Sea
FWIW I think Greta is great. In 50 yrs time our kids will be asking why nobody listened to her.

Because we all wanted to drive to work every day in our own cars and have our apples in plastic bags.
Nothing to do with mass industry in the likes of India, China US of A, Aus and China?

Don't worry, I'll keep recycling wine bottles.
 


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