Gower predicts Moores sacking

[Perry Milkins]

This is not about a board full of Sussex fans rallying around Peter Moores. It is about Mr KP who is seemingly flexing his muscles so as to undermine Moores because he is not a 'Yes' man to him.

Englands cricket team and english cricket is not about a born-again South African who has an over-inflated ego and wants to to run the English test side without any interference.

 

[Gritt23]

I think I'm fighting something of a losing battle here, on a board full of Sussex fans!

Not sure that's it. I don't support Moores because of the Sussex connection. In fact, I don't realy support him much at all, I don't think he's done well for England at all. I just don't agree with KPs outburst, and would be shocked if we sacked Moores on the back of it.

I've lived I Kent now for 15 years, so they are very much my second team, but that doesn't mean I'd be calling for Ford. However, it may have something to do with why I'm a believer in Robert Key coming back in at no.3.

 

[sten_super]

If we sudden;y don't think Moores is the man, are we saying he wasn't responsible for the amazing turnaround at Sussex? If so, then let's give it another year and watch what happens at Surrey very closely, because if it wasn't Moores, then it was Adams.

It was this, primarily, that caused my comment about Sussex fans. Probably jumped the gun a bit but I do feel there's more of a pro-Moores stance here than you would find on most other boards, probably just because people on this board are more aware of the scale of what he did at Sussex. I suggested that the management may use it as an excuse to get rid of Moores (after agreeing that it would be the wrong thing to do!), and CarWash suggests (implicitly) that there's no-one to replace him and Gritt talks about the possibility of some other cause of the 'Sussex miracle'!

 

[Gritt23]

My point being that the ECB have clearly brought in Moores due to the phenomenal turnaround at Sussex, and believing (probably correctly) that he was the man that made it happen. IF that is what they were buying into with Sussex, then my point is merely that we may be about to discover that it was actually more about Chris Adams.

Shall I also mention that I believe Mushy as a bowling coach for the spinners is a fantastic move.

 

[Sweeney Todd]

Vaughan is to the England cricket team what Beckham is to the England football team.

 

[The Large One]

Don't agree.

Beckham still has something (even if not as much as it once was) to offer. At present, Vaughan is a mess.

 

[Sweeney Todd]

Don't agree.

Beckham still has something (even if not as much as it once was) to offer. At present, Vaughan is a mess.

Vaughan has always struck me as a straightforward sort of guy. But his sudden collapse in confidence makes you wonder what's going on in his head. How does a guy go from being the England batsman that the Aussies fear most to being unable to get the ball off the square?

 

[bigbadbonkingbob]

If anything the debate should have been about why on earth Owais Shah gets overlooked instead of a has-been who has not demonstrated to anyone that he is still capable of scoring runs.

Or why we're taking three spinners to the Windies, but not giving the captain what he wants. KP's one of the few people in the England set up worthy of his wage in recent times, and I don't include Moores or (much as I like him) Geoff Miller in that.

 

[The Large One]

Vaughan has always struck me as a straightforward sort of guy. But his sudden collapse in confidence makes you wonder what's going on in his head. How does a guy go from being the England batsman that the Aussies fear most to being unable to get the ball off the square?

My point exactly.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Or Robert Key. He's looked like the obvious move at No.3 for a while now.

Sorry to say, but Key should not be anywhere near the England set up. He is a flat track bully at best, who has had enough chances at international level without ever really producing.

Also he is a second division player now.

 

[bigbadbonkingbob]

Sorry to say, but Key should not be anywhere near the England set up. He is a flat track bully at best, who has had enough chances at international level without ever really producing.

Also he is a second division player now.

As I'm sure you know, the division in which a player plays is far less relevant in cricket than it is in football. When Steve Harmison and Michael Vaughan were tearing into the Aussies in 2005 they were also second division players.

Rob Key has, like several English cricketers over the last few years, been criminally overlooked in favour of some significantly inferior players because their faces didn't fit as well. Key's a far superior batsman to anything Trescothick ever was, Read is the best keeper that this country has produced in years, and Gary Keedy is a better spinner even now than Ashley Giles ever was in his prime. I put it down to weak management, and overbearing captaincy - it paid off in 2005 thanks in no small part to Glenn McGrath's injury, but overall it has damaged English cricket massively.

Moores should be replaced, but not with a Pietersen yes man. I think that the time has come for a big foreign name, and I'd actually like to see someone like Glenn McGrath or Darren Lehmann sounded out for it - someone who knows the international game inside out, is a proven winner, will command the respect of the captain and the dressing room but at the same time won't take any bullshit from them. We've got the players, but our management structure is frankly awful.

 

[BensGrandad]

I am sure that either Glenn McGrath and Darren Lehmann would become our mentor to take the Ashes from the Aussies!!

I would sooner go for an Englishman like Gower, Hussein or Beefy.

 

[sten_super]

Rob Key has, like several English cricketers over the last few years, been criminally overlooked in favour of some significantly inferior players because their faces didn't fit as well. Key's a far superior batsman to anything Trescothick ever was, Read is the best keeper that this country has produced in years, and Gary Keedy is a better spinner even now than Ashley Giles ever was in his prime. I put it down to weak management, and overbearing captaincy - it paid off in 2005 thanks in no small part to Glenn McGrath's injury, but overall it has damaged English cricket massively.

I agree to a certain degree, but think you are massively overstating your case. Key, amongst others, have been overlooked. Shah is another one at the moment. Yes he's in the squad but when Collingwood looked like he was batting with a matchstick he didn't get a look in, and I can't see it now even though Bell is playing like an U-11 player. Are you seriously saying that Trescothick, Test average 43.79, FC average 37.92, is significantly worse than Key, Test average 31.00, FC average 41.48? What exactly are you basing that on? Read has fallen foul of a generational issue; because he's been playing at the same time as Adam Gilchrist, that's what England have been looking for. Read is an excellent keeper, but has never looked anything like convincing bat in hand (for England). Haven't seen much of Keedy but I'll happily take your word for it.

 

[bigbadbonkingbob]

I am sure that either Glenn McGrath and Darren Lehmann would become our mentor to take the Ashes from the Aussies!!

I would sooner go for an Englishman like Gower, Hussein or Beefy.

McGrath and Lehmann are winners first and foremost. It didn't seem to bother Troy Cooley when he was putting together a pace attack to win the Ashes for England, nor would it bother either of my two suggestions. Lehmann wanted the job when Fletcher finally went, as I recall.

Selecting another Englishman - particularly a recent player like Hussein, or a goon like Botham - will just lead to yet more cronyism. We need to smash the boys' club and get players starting to have to play for their place.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

If Botham got the job I would give up on English cricket. He's absolutely clueless. Great player, but AWFUL at watching & understanding the game.

Dev Whatmore would do me. Like a lot of coaches/managers, Moores got a bit lucky with a player like Mushy (another example being Adams with Zamora), but hasn't cut it once the playing field is a bit more level.

Ray Illingworth had the right idea a few years back. Having a selection committee, a coach & a captain simply doesn't work. There needs to be a man in charge... probably the captain IMO

 

[sten_super]

Ray Illingworth had the right idea a few years back. Having a selection committee, a coach & a captain simply doesn't work. There needs to be a man in charge... probably the captain IMO

Didn't know Illingworth expressed those views, but I whole-heartedly agree with them. At the moment we have 3 selectors, a coach and a captain who all have their own ideas and suggestions for how. I'm not sure I'd put the captain in charge though; I can see him being a bit too short-term based in his thinking to bring through young players, etc. I'd favour a county-style system where the coach is the man responsible for picking players and telling them where and how he wants them to play, with the captain reporting to him.

Oh and I agree with the last couple of posters that a former England player would be disastrous. A competent and strong coach is what is needed (which Moores may yet prove to be).

 

[Uncle Buck]

There is no way that Key is better than Trescothick. Other than Key's big score against the Windies he was a regular failure for England and should not be anywhere near the England set up. A modern day Ramps, Hick or Crawley, good County player, but not good enough for England.

 

[Gritt23]

I fear Key is going to be the next in a line of players we have decided is not Test class, and we just seem to stop watching. For me, he has matured very nicely as a batsmen and a cricketer. He looks well organised, confident in what shots he has, and knows what shots not to play, and seeing as we've had a problem at no.3 for years, with Bell never looking comnfortable there, while Vaughan and Strauss have both given it a go when prefering to open, I fear we are saying that Key has just been dismissed as an option years ago, regardless of how his batting looks now.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

KP is a fantastic talent but does't he know it. I am unsure if he can build a winning team, we could end up like the Windies and relying on him to just score lots of runs.

I think KP's personality is showing through here and he needs to take a look at the bigger picture, calm doen a bit and not throw his toys out the pram. Moores is a fantastic coach and motivator of players, I would have him back at Sussex anyday where there is little politics to get his way.

 

[Uncle Buck]

KP is a fantastic talent but does't he know it. I am unsure if he can build a winning team, we could end up like the Windies and relying on him to just score lots of runs.

I think KP's personality is showing through here and he needs to take a look at the bigger picture, calm doen a bit and not throw his toys out the pram. Moores is a fantastic coach and motivator of players, I would have him back at Sussex anyday where there is little politics to get his way.

I am not sure Moores is a fantastic coach. He did very well at Sussex and turned us around. However it is Robinson who took Sussex to the next level, although it will be interesting to see how he does this season, essentially with a new side.

Also Moores best Sussex side was the team in 2005, but he could not get us to be consistent enough.