[News] Government tax credit cuts bill defeated in the House of Lords

[severnside gull]

only child tax credits where promised

Just reviewed the tv interview and would argue that

 

[spring hall convert]

i'm curious why this keeps being brought up when no one seemed to notice the same in 2001 and 2005 where the government was elected on 24% and 21.5%. yes, we probably need to address the whole electoral system as its odd that 21.5% and only 9.5 million voters can return a 60+ seat majority, when the two elections since has given us a hung parliament and 12 seat majority on a million and two million more votes for the largest party. think about this when boundary changes, and equalising size of constituencies comes up (it will im sure).

i think its more than likely that the Tories hadnt actually worked through exactly where the cuts were going to fall, as they hadn't expected a majority, and made broad policies to be traded/merged in with Liberal policies. what we see here is a somewhat odd attempt from the Chancellor to get bad news and big cuts out of the way early in the parliament, for a strategist he doesn't seem to judge the impact and outcome of his policies very well, then digs his heals in, before an inevitable climb down. hopefully this will be a wake up that you cant keep running policy like this, an we have more sensible economic policy for the next 4 years.

Though I concede you might have a general point, I've always brought it up, this electoral system is wrong, plain and simple. The sizes of majorities under Blair and Thtacher were wrong in relation to the votes cast. With the increased vote share for parties other than Labour or The Conservatives at the last election - the issue became starker

Agreed. He's hoping that the people he ****s over forget about it by the time of the next election. Whether the Tory Party knew what they were going to do or not (and I firmly believe they did know exactly what they were going to do in the event of a majority - isn't that the point of a manifesto?) isn't the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that had they been upfront about this change it would have been the difference between a hung parliament and a majority.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The country moans about people not voting , yet when we do vote we elect a government on the policies it has put forward and get´s rejected by a bunch of has-beens that were NOT elected and looking at the amount of votes at least 600 off the old cronies at 300 pounds a piece has cost the tax payer at least 180 grand for a days work plus expenses i guess . Worse day in political history , some deserve my tax but after 35 years of paying a large proportion and seeing wasters and kids spring up galore it does **** me off !

What's the point in voting !

Oh i am back in the UK now living after 2 years in Czech .

We can't claim a penny because my wife earns too much. We do get the standard £80 per month for our child. However it all adds when you see people who have 4,5,6 children. We cannot afford to have any more children.

Benefits cost this government an absolute fortune. Not enough we also have to pay all these benefits for people from the EU too. May be if the EU kept their hooter out of things we could stop benefits for a period of 5-6 years, or they only get it when they have made a proper contribution to our system. This is fair, but someone people don't see it like that. Your right it **** me of too, especially when I hear about child benefits leaving this country. People need to look at why the government are cutting, they are not doing it because they are evil, they are doing it because this country cannot afford it. If they stopped giving it away there might be enough to go to the people who really need it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

only child tax credits where promised and remain for those receiving it.

During the leaders debate Cameron very very clearly, without caveat, stated child tax credits would not fall. This would not have been the case had the Lords not intervened.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

G

I work with enough of the majority who refuse to do more than 16 hours because the would lose the tax credits...
They do the minimum number of hours to gain the most credits...
I had nothing and got where I am through hard work and drive..everything that these people will never have whilst others supplement their laziness.

Oh stop with the holier than thou rubbish. If you'd be better off working 16 hours and then getting tax credits to supplement the god awful wages in this country to feed your kids and pay your rent you would too. But no, as usual let's blame the poor for being poor. It's a life choice to be in debt and we all know they just use their tax credits for sky tv and drugs. It has absolutely nothing to do with declining wages and rip off land lords what so ever...

 

[sydney]

During the leaders debate Cameron very very clearly, without caveat, stated child tax credits would not fall. This would not have been the case had the Lords not intervened.

ahhh the Lords....!! sherry soaked , scarf twiddling , porn watching , caviar munching toe rags that they are.....where would we be without them....i honestly ask ya...!!

 

[beorhthelm]

During the leaders debate Cameron very very clearly, without caveat, stated child tax credits would not fall. This would not have been the case had the Lords not intervened.

and it still doesn't. unless you want to pretend that people who might qualify for something in the future wont get something they never had. no one in receipt of child tax credits will see them removed. new claims will be restricted to first two children as of next April, a compromise that is widely supported. we need to start making choices in life.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

ahhh the Lords....!! sherry soaked , scarf twiddling , porn watching , caviar munching toe rags that they are.....where would we be without them....i honestly ask ya...!!

Where would we be without them? Without tax credits.

 

[GT49er]

G

Oh stop with the holier than thou rubbish. If you'd be better off working 16 hours and then getting tax credits to supplement the god awful wages in this country to feed your kids and pay your rent you would too. But no, as usual let's blame the poor for being poor. It's a life choice to be in debt and we all know they just use their tax credits for sky tv and drugs. It has absolutely nothing to do with declining wages and rip off land lords what so ever...

Exactly. So Tories still shying away from the question - "So if you were asked to work longer hours, but the amount of money you were paid would be reduced, you would jump up and down and say 'Thank you very much Sir, that'll make my life so much better. How much would you like me to effectively pay to work more hours?'"

In this case, it's a shame that the commons can (and will) ignore and ultimately overturn (the third reading doesn't go to the Lords for comment/approval) a vote for the people in the Lords.

 

[GT49er]

and it still doesn't. unless you want to pretend that people who might qualify for something in the future wont get something they never had. no one in receipt of child tax credits will see them removed. new claims will be restricted to first two children as of next April, a compromise that is widely supported. we need to start making choices in life.

WE do? Or you do? Or they (as in, not people like me) do?

Suspect strongly that you will be above all the hardship that this will bring to many people.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

and it still doesn't. unless you want to pretend that people who might qualify for something in the future wont get something they never had. no one in receipt of child tax credits will see them removed. new claims will be restricted to first two children as of next April, a compromise that is widely supported. we need to start making choices in life.

This is quite an illogical/bizarre argument you're making here. Put simply, reducing benefits for future claimants is, and always will be, a drop in those benefits.

 

[drew]

Nobody is talking about auto-enrolment here - the obligation for employers to make pension contributions on behalf of employees and for those employees to start paying some of their net pay into that scheme too. That is kicking in for many smaller businesses now and throughout 2016, so just when they're being asked to pay more in wages the government is also telling them to start making pension payments too.

With dividend taxation coming in April 2016 the Chancellor is in for a tough ride from now on.

The government's reasoning is sound enough but their implementation of the changes they deem necessary is ham-fisted which, for this Prime Minister, is no surprise. The only way they're going to get out of this tight squeeze is to sink to their knees and blow the Chinese.

Exactly what proportion of the population is going to be affected by the new dividend taxation? It will only affect those that earn more than £5,000 in dividends each year. Not sure whether it applies to dividends earned as part of a pension fund. If not, then there really isn't going to be a big % of the population affected.

As for your comments about Greece, they aren't really the benchmark, they are the extreme. We don't need austerity to the degree that they have it, far from it.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Am sure this will get shot down, as it is a political thread and that is the norm...

However, surely eventually the Government will just invoke the Parliament Act and push it through.

Presumably all this talk of 'constitutional crisis' is down to the fact that for once, if the Liberals and Labour vote together, the Tories do not have a majority in the Lords? So they cannot get their own way.

 

[beorhthelm]

Am sure this will get shot down, as it is a political thread and that is the norm...

However, surely eventually the Government will just invoke the Parliament Act and push it through.

as i understand it, this doesn't apply as the change wasn't going through as legislation but using statutory instrument. which is the Lords argument why they are within their rights to block it, because the government hasn't put it forward as part of a finance bill. its all very technical.

 

[coagulantwolf]

I work with enough of the majority who refuse to do more than 16 hours because the would lose the tax credits...
They do the minimum number of hours to gain the most credits...
I had nothing and got where I am through hard work and drive..everything that these people will never have whilst others supplement their laziness.

People like this at my work too; refuse to do any over time or work any extra shifts because it'll impact their tax credits..

 

[BLOCK F]

People like this at my work too; refuse to do any over time or work any extra shifts because it'll impact their tax credits..

This is one of the problems with tax credits as they can act as a disincentive to working and helping individuals help themselves out of the poverty trap.
Tax credits have become a monster and are way overdue for reform; however, the way the Government have handled this is cack-handed in the extreme and anyone with half a brain could have seen this.
Hopefully, the transitional relief that should have been in place from day one will now be introduced.It cannot be right to penalise those with very modest means as per the original proposals.
I am a Tory voter and we are not all heartless scum!

 

[Uh_huh_him]

This is one of the problems with tax credits as they can act as a disincentive to working and helping individuals help themselves out of the poverty trap.
Tax credits have become a monster and are way overdue for reform; however, the way the Government have handled this is cack-handed in the extreme and anyone with half a brain could have seen this.
Hopefully, the transitional relief that should have been in place from day one will now be introduced.It cannot be right to penalise those with very modest means as per the original proposals.
I am a Tory voter and we are not all heartless scum!

I agree the tax credit system doesn't appear to work very well.
I think the main problem for a lot of people, is that if they lose Tax credits, then they also lose housing benefit. Most of the affected people just aren't in a position to cover these costs by working an extra 20 hrs at minimum wage.

 

[severnside gull]

Am sure this will get shot down, as it is a political thread and that is the norm...

However, surely eventually the Government will just invoke the Parliament Act and push it through.

Presumably all this talk of 'constitutional crisis' is down to the fact that for once, if the Liberals and Labour vote together, the Tories do not have a majority in the Lords? So they cannot get their own way.

It's a bit like the people who shoot you down on here - stamp their feet loud enough and their view will prevail

 

[clapham_gull]

Gideon is IN FAVOUR of an elected house of Lords.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Gideon is IN FAVOUR of an elected house of Lords.

Looking at the electability of the official opposition I'm not surprised