George Zimmerman not guilty.

[martyn20]

Chasing is an embellishment of "following", which we knew.
"fight back" is predicated on the assumption (not found in evidence) that Zimmerman started the fight.

How about some more facts found in the courtroom.

The area was surrounded by neighbourhood watch signposts with the words "we report all suspicious persons and activity to the police... [phone number]".
This is the number called by Zimmerman where he stated "I think he's on drugs or something".
Trayvon's toxicology report found he was under the influence of THC, and his only other injury was to his hand.
Zimmerman suffered a broken nose and cuts to the back of his head.
The bullet injury is consistent with Zimmerman firing upwards from his back, because the gun was in contact with something (hoodie?) but still 2-12 inches away from the victim's body.


I have absolutely no stake either way, but the media circus seems to ignore all these facts and this thread could use some balance.

Zimmerman had no official position but he was out patrolling the area with a gun, that's why he was there. Trayvon was walking from a shop back to the house he was spending the evening at, that's why he was there.
Would I be correct in saying that the level of THC was very low and would not have changed his behaviour, which was at the time walking back from the shops.
I take it you have read the transcript, why do you think Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman?

 

[yxee]

I didn't say 'I think' anything, I said the evidence was consistent with that theory, which was Zimmerman's defence.

 

[martyn20]

I didn't say 'I think' anything, I said the evidence was consistent with that theory, which was Zimmerman's defence.

Ok why do you think they came together physically?

 

[Barrel of Fun]

911 told him not to follow. That wasn't the role of Zimmerman. Would Trayvon be dead if Zimmerman had stuck to what he was supposed to do and follow relevant advice given?

Ridiculous law of 'stand your ground' gives a carte blanche to pull the trigger and then use it as a get out of jail free card.

 

[yxee]

Ok why do you think they came together physically?

I don't know. This line of questioning does not reconcile with "innocent until proven guilty".

 

[martyn20]

I don't know. This line of questioning does not reconcile with "innocent until proven guilty".

The facts are that Zimmerman shot Trayvon who was unarmed, do you agree with that?

 

[Kosmonaut]

911 told him not to follow. That wasn't the role of Zimmerman. Would Trayvon be dead if Zimmerman had stuck to what he was supposed to do and follow relevant advice given?

Ridiculous law of 'stand your ground' gives a carte blanche to pull the trigger and then use it as a get out of jail free card.

Did Zimmerman **** up, resulting in the death of Trayvon? Yes. But when he pulled that trigger, Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman being attacked in the head in an altercation that lasted long enough to be life threatening, this is what the forensic evidence says and cannot really be disputed; it was clear cut self defense, he did not just shoot him point blank without provocation.

 

[yxee]

The facts are that Zimmerman shot Trayvon who was unarmed, do you agree with that?

Yes. You can still post a threat to someone's life without a weapon; this was the self-defence claim.

 

[martyn20]

Did Zimmerman **** up, resulting in the death of Trayvon? Yes. But when he pulled that trigger, Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman being attacked in the head in an altercation that lasted long enough to be life threatening, this is what the forensic evidence says and cannot really be disputed; it was clear cut self defense, he did not just shoot him point blank without provocation.

When they first saw each other what were each of them doing?

 

[martyn20]

Yes. You can still post a threat to someone's life without a weapon; this was the self-defence claim.

And Zimmerman said himself on the transcript he was following Trayvon, not the other way around, why did he do that if he was in fear of his life?

 

[yxee]

And Zimmerman said himself on the transcript he was following Trayvon, not the other way around, why did he do that if he was in fear of his life?

This is getting silly. He was not in fear of his life until he was attacked later on.

 

[Kosmonaut]

When they first saw each other what were each of them doing?

Does not matter, if he was charged with some form of criminal negligence in his duty as a neighborhood watchmen, then these kind of questions might be relevant. But the fact that the jury correctly identified that a charge of murder or manslaughter cannot be sustained given the evidence is not something anyone should be "depressed" about, I cannot possibly envisage any well functioning court system finding otherwise.

 

[martyn20]

This is getting silly. He was not in fear of his life until he was attacked later on.

And why do you think Trayvon 'attacked him', for no reason or as a reaction to what was happening. This is basic to the whole case.

 

[martyn20]

Does not matter, if he was charged with some form of criminal negligence in his duty as a neighborhood watchmen, then these kind of questions might be relevant. But the fact that the jury correctly identified that a charge of murder or manslaughter cannot be sustained given the evidence is not something anyone should be "depressed" about, I cannot possibly envisage any well functioning court system finding otherwise.

So the fact he was the only witness because he had killed the other one does not matter? Do you think Zimmerman is guilty of any offence in this case?

 

[yxee]

And why do you think Trayvon 'attacked him', for no reason or as a reaction to what was happening. This is basic to the whole case.

Like I said before, I don't know. This line of questioning is perplexing. What does what I think have to do with anything? I'm just repeating the facts and the evidence of the case with the hope that a rational person will see what the jury did: that there is not enough evidence to support a guilty verdict.

 

[Kosmonaut]

So the fact he was the only witness because he had killed the other one does not matter?

Nope, that does not make a difference.

Do you think Zimmerman is guilty of any offence in this case?

I do not know, but there is no rational reason for the jury to find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of the specific offenses he was charged with.

 

[martyn20]

Like I said before, I don't know. This line of questioning is perplexing. What does what I think have to do with anything? I'm just repeating the facts and the evidence of the case with the hope that a rational person will see what the jury did: that there is not enough evidence to support a guilty verdict.

Sorry usually people on a forum talk about their own views and opinions, no worries

 

[Jim Van Winkle]

This is the number called by Zimmerman where he stated "I think he's on drugs or something".
Trayvon's toxicology report found he was under the influence of THC, and his only other injury was to his hand.

Funny that Trayvon's body was tested for drugs. Yet Zimmerman was not. Just saying.

 

[Ken Livingstone Seagull]

I have two teenage black sons.

This verdict is heartbreaking and confirms my perspective of the way minorities are viewed in this country when push comes to shove and not much different to the UK really).

Luckily, one lives with me here in Hawaii where this kind of vigilante crime is very rare (ironically one such White-on-Local Hawaiian murder in Honolulu is underway now).

The other, age 14, is in Los Angeles pursuing his football career. I now have to repeat and remind him that with his black complexion, size, and dreads, he will be a target and must submit at all costs even if he is completely within his "rights", that in LA especially the LAPD have a decidedly racist track record, and that it is a dangerous city. I have to echo Gary Younge's words that this is open season again for black kids like him.

When you have skin in the game, it's harder to deal with this outcome than when you're part of the white racial majority in a racial-majority city and area, living in a white majority culture. On the other side of the fence, things are very, very different.

Even on the footy field, there are clear (probably subconscious) decisions that routinely go against my sons, the black one more so that my brown one. In a major tournament last summer he made a 50/50 tackle and was sent off because the ref (who was trailing him and at least 20 yards away) didn't like his expression -- felt it was evidence of dangerous play. I have the video. That decision was trumped up. But it's typical that anything 50/50 or 40/60 goes against him. After all, he's a big, black threatening young buck. Hopefully that part of the equation is less evident is footy over there.

Walk in their shoes for a week, for a month, then look at the empathy you have for a racist wannabe cop who does explicitly what the real police tell him not to do. Minimum of manslaughter or negligent homicide. His actions, that he was told by authorities not to pursue, resulted in a death. He is culpable. Yet, apparently, not guilty of anything.

There will be a civil suit, a la OJ Simpson, and I wouldn't want to be in Zimmerman's shoes from this point on because there will be those who seek some form of justice.
There is absolutely nothing redeeming about any of this whole sad mess.

 

[yxee]

Sorry usually people on a forum talk about their own views and opinions, no worries

It's my opinion that people should reserve judgement when important facts are not known. Sorry for being boring!

Funny that Trayvon's body was tested for drugs. Yet Zimmerman was not. Just saying.

I find this pretty strange as well.