[News] George Floyd trial

[neilbard]

Agreed, but police are held to a standard of behaviour and professionalism when dealing with non compliance. All arrests must involve some suspicion of law breaking, so the actions of the culprit or suspect really don’t alter this case - in my opinion.

I totally agree with you.

 

[rippleman]

Worryingly "kneeling on the neck" is an approved restraint technique for use by our bobbies too. Seen it several times on programmes like "Police Interceptors" and "Traffic Cops" and once personally witnessed it.

With this case, I would hope that the OB would outlaw that technique now the world understands the consequences of acting with such brutality.

 

[GT49er]

There are those in this thread who've bought into the argument, so at least 50/50 chance that they will find a juror who will as well

Well, there are conspiracy theorists, flat-earthers, David Eycke supporters, tin-foil hat wearers and general fruit jobs everywhere, I suppose. If an American jury can find O.J.Simpson not guilty then anything is possible. At least the jury is a better mix of races this time, I believe.

 

[Easy 10]

Worryingly "kneeling on the neck" is an approved restraint technique for use by our bobbies too. Seen it several times on programmes like "Police Interceptors" and "Traffic Cops" and once personally witnessed it.

With this case, I would hope that the OB would outlaw that technique now the world understands the consequences of acting with such brutality.

Its obviously not a pleasant experience, but its a valid way of restraining someone. However, Chauvin went way, way too far by not relinquishing his knee for about a further 4-5 minutes after Floyd had become unresponsive, DESPITE the plea's of the witnesses on the street and DESPITE one of his own colleagues suggesting he release his grip (whilst checking Floyd's pulse).

I would not expect any trained officer to maintain his knee on someone for that long. Its inexplicable why Chauvin did what he did.

 

[Sheebo]

Has there been any evidence of racism or has this been touched upon yet in the trial?

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Has there been any evidence of racism or has this been touched upon yet in the trial?

Witness testimony at present so no. Interesting whether that comes into it as they can’t necessarily prove he’s racist and whether they need to in order to prove his guilt - whether that is a black, white or whoever under his knee, he’s acted unlawfully. That’s what they need to prove in my opinion, trying to find or show evidence of racism may hinder rather than help the prosecution as it’s something the defence can challenge and divert attention away from concentrating on the act itself.

 

[Sheebo]

Witness testimony at present so no. Interesting whether that comes into it as they can’t necessarily prove he’s racist and whether they need to in order to prove his guilt - whether that is a black, white or whoever under his knee, he’s acted unlawfully. That’s what they need to prove in my opinion, trying to find or show evidence of racism may hinder rather than help the prosecution as it’s something the defence can challenge and divert attention away from concentrating on the act itself.

Yep - I imagine it may have been racist but certainly no proof. Posted this when it happened and as usual people couldn’t see their assumptions right in front of them. All I thought when I first saw it was pure police brutality - not skin colour. Weird how this whole thing caused the BLM movement (nothing wrong with that being the catalyst for a great cause) without any proof of racism involved. But still, sheer nasty police brutality for me.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Yep - I imagine it may have been racist but certainly no proof. Posted this when it happened and as usual people couldn’t see their assumptions right in front of them. All I thought when I first saw it was pure police brutality - not skin colour. Weird how this whole thing caused the BLM movement (nothing wrong with that being the catalyst for a great cause) without any proof of racism involved. But still, sheer nasty police brutality for me.

As an individual, he could hate drug addicts, jobless, people who wear Nike, who knows. I think the question of institutional racism is another matter. If you've got to the point where one type of person is suspected over another, and that's ingrained so deep throughout that institution that subconsciously whether you have racist thoughts or not, you're effectively assimilated into that thinking, then you have a huge problem.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Nothing to do with revenge.

It's removing a threat so it never hurts anyone again.

Making YOU by definition 'a threat' and then wholly justifiable for one of that person's friends or relatives to come along and shoot you (to remove the threat).

etc, etc, etc

 

[Napper]

As an individual, he could hate drug addicts, jobless, people who wear Nike, who knows. I think the question of institutional racism is another matter. If you've got to the point where one type of person is suspected over another, and that's ingrained so deep throughout that institution that subconsciously whether you have racist thoughts or not, you're effectively assimilated into that thinking, then you have a huge problem.

its another argument but take the UK - 38% of knife offenders are non white ( two thirds in London).

In certain instances you have to go with the facts. Would not be prudent for example to stop elderley white women so as to treat all the same.

For me the line of what is racist gets muddied which is the current push from the left wing. Its a dangerous game but of course pure racism is wrong

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

its another argument but take the UK - 38% of knife offenders are non white ( two thirds in London).

In certain instances you have to go with the facts. Would not be prudent for example to stop elderley white women so as to treat all the same.

For me the line of what is racist gets muddied which is the current push from the left wing. Its a dangerous game but of course pure racism is wrong

Each of us is innocent until proven guilty though right? If I'm in a high statistical category of committing a crime, my basic human right is that I am still treated the same as everyone else - not that I am a potential criminal because I fit a statistical model. I'm not sure that is anything to do with left wing, surely that is purely the freedom of every individual in this country?

Would not be prudent to stop an elderly white women OR a black youth unless I had sufficient reason to do so. You seem to be suggesting it's fine to search the black youth purely on statistics?

 

[Baldseagull]

I'm just not buying into the notion that the government, in cahoots with private businesses, are sending as many people to jail as possible in order to make a profit off them.

It's not just about financial gain. If you also factor in felony disenfranchisement, as was and is practiced by some states, then there is an incentive for politicians to lock up people of a demographic more likely to vote for the other guy too. There is also a small benefit to balance of trade for the US, with cheap labour of prisoners allowing some industries to compete with Mexican producers that they would otherwise be much more expensive than.

 

[Baldseagull]

Worryingly "kneeling on the neck" is an approved restraint technique for use by our bobbies too. Seen it several times on programmes like "Police Interceptors" and "Traffic Cops" and once personally witnessed it.

With this case, I would hope that the OB would outlaw that technique now the world understands the consequences of acting with such brutality.

There is a place for it, someone thrashing about on the floor can injure their head on the pavement, so restricting the ability to move the head is in part for the safety of the person being restrained. Like a copper can use a baton, or a taser, if they need to, but would equally be in trouble if they beat someone to death with a baton, or continued to discharge the taser on an already unconscious subject.

 

[Baldseagull]

its another argument but take the UK - 38% of knife offenders are non white ( two thirds in London).

In certain instances you have to go with the facts. Would not be prudent for example to stop elderley white women so as to treat all the same.

For me the line of what is racist gets muddied which is the current push from the left wing. Its a dangerous game but of course pure racism is wrong

A bigger problem than that black guys are stopped and searched disproportionately, is that they are stopped and searched disrespectfully. Most arrests from stop and searches are for drugs, and 87% of stop and searches in London do not result in an arrest at all, so I think it is fair to ask that they are carried out as discreetly and respectfully as possible. If 10% of elderly women were tooled up, or had a bit of weed on them, I would still want to make sure the other 90% didn't feel targeted and abused by the police, just because they were old and female.

 

[Easy 10]

It's not just about financial gain. If you also factor in felony disenfranchisement, as was and is practiced by some states, then there is an incentive for politicians to lock up people of a demographic more likely to vote for the other guy too. There is also a small benefit to balance of trade for the US, with cheap labour of prisoners allowing some industries to compete with Mexican producers that they would otherwise be much more expensive than.

This is diverting the thread into conspiracy theory territory though, which is unprovable, and unhelpful.

Unless you think Chauvin's primary motivation that day, and his subsequent actions, was to get Floyd locked up to help with some targeted demographic quota to help with future votes, as well as profits for private businesses.

Sorry. I don't see that being a factor in this case, at all. So its completely pointless bringing it up tbh.

 

[Baldseagull]

This is diverting the thread into conspiracy theory territory though, which is unprovable, and unhelpful.

Unless you think Chauvin's primary motivation that day, and his subsequent actions, was to get Floyd locked up to help with some targeted demographic quota to help with future votes, as well as profits for private businesses.

Sorry. I don't see that being a factor in this case, at all. So its completely pointless bringing it up tbh.

No, not really relevant to the thread, just relevant to your post I thought, which is on this thread.

 

[rogersix]

This is diverting the thread into conspiracy theory territory though, which is unprovable, and unhelpful.

Unless you think Chauvin's primary motivation that day, and his subsequent actions, was to get Floyd locked up to help with some targeted demographic quota to help with future votes, as well as profits for private businesses.

Sorry. I don't see that being a factor in this case, at all. So its completely pointless bringing it up tbh.

clearly there's lots of vested interests, and big bucks, mix in some lobbyists and away you go.

there was a piece about this on newsneght; carson city, a town of 36,000 souls and 13 prisons. directly or otherwise, everyone's employment relies on a river of humanity flowing thru their city

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

clearly there's lots of vested interests, and big bucks, mix in some lobbyists and away you go.

there was a piece about this on newsneght; carson city, a town of 36,000 souls and 13 prisons. directly or otherwise, everyone's employment relies on a river of humanity flowing thru their city

Prisons are big business in America - massive profits to be made out of them.

Tories would like to do the same thing in Britain.

 

[Weststander]

Damning, incisive testimony just ended from murder squad detective from Minneapolis Police, Richard Zimmerman

If you missed it and are interested, well worth a watch.

In summary:

1. There was no need to hold Floyd in the handcuffed prone position, with a knee on his neck.

2. Their training is clear that the prone position with handcuffed wrists, in dangerous to life. From the weight of the individual on their lungs and stretched chest muscles from being handcuffed from behind. The detainee should not be left in that state.

3. Once someone is handcuffed, they are the officer’s, their primary concern is their wellbeing. Over and above the danger of for example being kicked.

 

[Easy 10]

Having now watched it on Court TV (which I am now ADDICTED to), Lieutenant Zimmerman's testimony pretty much shredded the defence's case. He is a high-ranking, experienced, credible witness, and bolstered what I think we and the jurors are all thinking - that it was totally unnecessary for Chauvin to use that level of force, and particularly for that amount of time. If I was Chauvin's lawyer I'd have wanted him off the stand ASAP, I'm amazed how long he questioned him. It did nothing except help the case for the prosecution.