[Albion] Garcia's reasons for leaving (from today's Argus, per Andy Naylor)

[Mackenzie]

It would appear that for this season, at least, that was more to do with Oscar despite Burke.
Who is working in the name of Tony Bloom.

At worst it was a combination of Oscar coaching Burke's players. Not the traditional set up by any means, but look what football has become by leaving ex-footballers in sole charge.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Well what Oscar is saying via the Argus and Naylor is the polar opposite of what I've heard from a what I would call a reliable source.

Now I'm not saying either is 100% correct but I don't believe either are 100% wrong either. There is more to this than Oscar's view and although he clearly had issues with the recruiting process which must be investigated I also believe some of the problems are of his own making.

This is where I'm at, too. People won't want to hear it though. Some would rather have a big stick to beat the club with.

Please post those alternative opinions to give a bit of balance.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It's a shame to hear of this but I'm pleased we are keeping a tight control on finances.

Despite the apparently small budget we are working with we have remained very competitive. I'd be far more concerned if we were gambling without any great success like Forest or spending premier league parachute payments like Reading or QPR and still not getting automatic promotion.

Personally I don't think the problem is the amount of finance - just how it is spent and who spends it. I've never liked the Head Coach and Director of Football setup - we need to go back to a good old Manager setup. TB gives that manager a pot of money and he ( or maybe even she ? ) spends it how they see fit. They get it wrong then they get the sack.

 

[KZNSeagull]

I agree there are two completely separate issues here.

The first is the budget. It cannot and should not be broken, not just because of FFP but because doing so is an unsustainable way to run anything. On this the club have my backing and it's something we need to get used to.

The second issue is how that budget is used and (once again) the club's communications around this. Clearly neither David Burke nor Oscar had the final say on transfers despite Burke going on record with his own job description and stating that Oscar has final say. This needs addressing and now. I wouldn't be rushing to take the job at the moment and I can completely understand why Oscar left.

Agree with first point.

The second point maybe true but is unclear. I would guess that David Burke has guidelines under which he works - for example, maybe Grabban's demands would have meant he was one of the highest paid players at the club and were outside any limit that had been placed on Burke. So he would have had to get board approval before sealing the deal. I would imagine that if the demands were within Burke's limits, the deal would have been done there and then.

Oscar's list of players is more worrying for me. That is not a good sign, but again we can only afford who we can afford so maybe they were all unattainable finance wise or otherwise.

Am not surprised, then that Oscar left, but anyone coming in has to be under no illusion that we have a budget and are not going to break it under any circumstances. This will be restrictive, obviously, and will only get better once FFP or it's children kicks in and wage demands come down. We will be in for a few years of frustration in the transfer front, that is for sure, but we have come mightily close to promotion 2 years on the trot under similar circumstances and it cannot surely be a case of splashing vast wads of cash to take that final step.

Whoever our new manager is they must be used to this situation and be patient! So any of the billy big spenders ex premier league lot are out for me. Nigel Clough or someone of his ilk is where we will be looking I would suggest.

 

[blockhseagull]

Please post those alternative opinions to give a bit of balance.

Been posted before, involving Oscar not wanting to be involved in recruitment

 

[Grassman]

"Brains of an archbishop"? Frankly, I doubt most of us have the brains of the current archbishop, but still ...

Really, would that be the Archbishop of Canterbury you are talking about? The same bloke who this weekend said (a full month after their kidnap) that those 200 Nigerian girls are in "grave danger". Someone ought to rename him The Archbishop of Sherlock. Still, as one of God's representatives on earth, that's the kind of intellect I'm looking for.

 

[glasfryn]

incredible just incredible

 

[Hamilton]

Oscar could have said...'To lose one head coach may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness.'

 

[El Presidente]

Given the number of season ticket holders the club has, and the number of pies and pints consumed, there must be something seriously wrong with the basic business model then. Short of substantially raising ticket prices, there wouldn't seem to be a lot of leeway for bumping up the revenue. Unless of course, we can attract and retain the playing talent to get us to the gravy train of the Premier League. And that means ripping up the current wage structure.

I think many underestimate the importance of parachute payments (and remember there are 7/8 clubs in receipt of them in this division).

Last season totals

Bolton revenue £28.5 million, of which £3.8 million was from gate receipts and £19.1 million from broadcasting/parachute payments.
Albion £23.3 million, of which £8.7 million was from gate receipts and £4.8 million was from broadcasting.

If we wanted to match Bolton's income, and fans had to pay for it, it would be an increase of around £240 on the price of a season ticket, and that's to compete with Bolton, who have finished below us in the last two seasons.

 

[Stat Brother]

At worst it was a combination of Oscar coaching Burke's players. Not the traditional set up by any means, but look what football has become by leaving ex-footballers in sole charge.

That's the dilemma.

I don't necessarily think Tony is wrong with his Barber and Burke structure.
But it would appear something isn't working.

Finessing the hierarchy now will be tough to take as Oscar is calling Pickfords.

 

[Bold Seagull]

None of this makes any real sense though. OG is an inexperienced manager in his first season in English football after only 1 season in full management. Did he really think he can just walk into a job and get free reign? What happened to managers earning their stripes, establishing their authority through hard work and sticking at it? After his success this season, he would have the confidence of the Chairman, board etc. to start to take more control over matters, instead, and I put this tentatively, he seems to have chucked in the towel like a spoilt child.

I've defended him over the course of the season, but our football has lacked pace, positivity and goals. I think he still has everything to prove, but he obviously thinks he is already bigger and better than this club.

We've seen evidence of managers given too much control over transfers and they can make a right hash of it. Perhaps our structure is a bit cumbersome, but I assume that can be an evolving process.

Disappointing to see a manager walk after effectively overachieving in a lot of ways, and perhaps there was more to come next season. We'll have to wait to see where OG crops up in his next job, as that is going to be more of an indication of why he left than inference over transfer policy.

 

[BigGully]

The reality remains that at each level of accountability within the club is dictated by budget.

Oscar's success is dictated by budget, but by no more than Burke's role too, even TB own commitment to the club is inevitably dictated by how much money he is willing or able to put in.

You can stop at either of the above mentioned people and turn them out to be the pantomime villain.

The real skill is if any of them can somehow increase the value of those budgets by 'over performing' on the pitch, many might argue that the past couple of years have seen that.

 

[kennyboy]

Interesting to know in reviewing club workings how the salaries/cost effectiveness across the management team stack up .Is Barber really on 800K pa is that value ?what is Burke on and whats his in and out record look like financially? How much in players wages has gone on non performers this year ? Question is could we use our revenue more wisely to put together a stronger squad?

At any level player cover and replacements has been to most fans a shamble and clear from November was not working .Communication in the coaching box and between players has often seemed non existent to fans watching.Changing tactics slow and a shambles on occasions, what does this indicate and about whom?

How come Burnley did what they did and on what money as an a yardstick? Is this thread about player purchase too simplistic,OG has often seemed to fans detached and uncertain .How good is he we don,t know,what did the players really think of him, could it explain some very indfferent performances in key players.,

How long has this been a sour club behind the scences despite programme propaganda all is well, get behind the players etc.If it was ,looks as if this departure may have been on the cards for some time, just a matter of seeing season out before it happened .Might explain a lot some of the unease fans have felt.

All leaves fans feeling in the mushroom syndrome and now needing some restoration in the reputation and ability in steerage of the club

 

[Stat Brother]

None of this makes any real sense though. OG is an inexperienced manager in his first season in English football after only 1 season in full management. Did he really think he can just walk into a job and get free reign? What happened to managers earning their stripes, establishing their authority through hard work and sticking at it? After his success this season, he would have the confidence of the Chairman, board etc. to start to take more control over matters, instead, and I put this tentatively, he seems to have chucked in the towel like a spoilt child.

I've defended him over the course of the season, but our football has lacked pace, positivity and goals. I think he still has everything to prove, but he obviously thinks he is already bigger and better than this club.

We've seen evidence of managers given too much control over transfers and they can make a right hash of it. Perhaps our structure is a bit cumbersome, but I assume that can be an evolving process.

Disappointing to see a manager walk after effectively overachieving in a lot of ways, and perhaps there was more to come next season. We'll have to wait to see where OG crops up in his next job, as that is going to be more of an indication of why he left than inference over transfer policy.

That reads like something you could have written 12 months ago.

What if you find yourself writing the same in 12 months time?

 

[KZNSeagull]

I think many underestimate the importance of parachute payments (and remember there are 7/8 clubs in receipt of them in this division).

Last season totals

Bolton revenue £28.5 million, of which £3.8 million was from gate receipts and £19.1 million from broadcasting/parachute payments.
Albion £23.3 million, of which £8.7 million was from gate receipts and £4.8 million was from broadcasting.

If we wanted to match Bolton's income, and fans had to pay for it, it would be an increase of around £240 on the price of a season ticket, and that's to compete with Bolton, who have finished below us in the last two seasons.

This really isn't about needing vast sways of money to compete. We, and others (Palace and to a lesser extent Burnley as they have had parachute payments), have shown that it can be done.

Our new manager has to work within the constraints the club give him and not get disillusioned when transfers do not go his way. This is not to say that our recruiting process could be improved, of course it can, but TB has made it clear that FFP is king as far as he is concerned. I thought that Oscar would be the man, but clearly he has given up when confronted with reality. Anyone coming in will have a hard job on their hands but they HAVE to up to the challenge. Gus clearly wasn't and Oscar has given up too soon, in my opinion.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

We seem to be moving into a Moneyball era whereby we buy players that are good value for what they offer. I imagine that if researched properly there are some very good players out there that are still under the radar for one reason or other.

If we can get an understanding manager who buys into the concept then we may just be able to build a team that may compete enough to sneak into a play off spot again....forget automatic promotion.

If we can also play an entertaining style of football to keep the fans happy then I suspect that is the best we can look forward to until the Academy starts paying its way which will be a good few years away.

Don't expect any Stella signings on the managerial or player front and look forward to next seasons roller coaster ride in another attempt at a play off spot

 

[keaton]

Difference between Oscar and Gus is that Gus was allowed to sign his targets and didn't in reality take us any further than Oscar.

Do we know that though?

 

[Biscuit]

Fair play to Poyet. Despite having very limited funds he built a team that made the Championship playoffs - twice! They're all getting on a bit now and we don't have any money to replace them. The ceiling did exist.

A midtable budget will give us a midtable team. We can't continually over achieve.

 

[somerset]

I think many underestimate the importance of parachute payments (and remember there are 7/8 clubs in receipt of them in this division).

Last season totals

Bolton revenue £28.5 million, of which £3.8 million was from gate receipts and £19.1 million from broadcasting/parachute payments.
Albion £23.3 million, of which £8.7 million was from gate receipts and £4.8 million was from broadcasting.

If we wanted to match Bolton's income, and fans had to pay for it, it would be an increase of around £240 on the price of a season ticket, and that's to compete with Bolton, who have finished below us in the last two seasons.

There is only one thing for it then,...... in the Championship, clubs not in receipt of parachute payments should get latitude to exceed the FFP limits by x% to enable the division to be fought for over a level playing field. Alternatively, the clubs at a disadvantage should legally challenge this inequality of starting positions.

 

[Bozza]

Fair play to Poyet. Despite having very limited funds he built a team that made the Championship playoffs - twice! They're all getting on a bit now and we don't have any money to replace them. The ceiling did exist.

Let's be clear: Poyet most certainly did not have "very limited funds".