Firle bonfire - racism ?

[Raphael Meade]

well i hate to stereotype but i can bet a few quid that these 'travelling folk' in firle were nothing more than a social group of pikey 'new travellers' that had no connection to gypsies at all.

can anyone confirm?

 

[Lammy]

For Christ’s sake!

Ok a Gypo is not another 'race' and therefore this is not racist.

Stereotyping causes most racism, ie all blacks are criminals, all Asians smell of curry etc. Obviously this is not true and thus is truly racist and views held only by people with an IQ in the cretin bracket.

However, Gypsies all live on land they do not own and the enormous majority do not pay any rent! A large proportion do not even ask permission. fact.

I cannot comment on their ability to lay a drive as I would never employ someone to do this on my own driveway if they had no fixed address to find them IF things went wrong.

How many Gypsies pay tax? Try offering a cheque for your driveway!

They leave behind a huge mess where ever they go, the majority do not pay tax. I doubt very much if in the eyes of the law if they exist at all!

If 'travellers' want to get on with the rest of society then they need to start playing by the rules and be accountable for their actions.

And as for the burning of a caravan! Well wow wee! It's a local bonfire (that's right things get burnt on bonfire night!) which deals with local issues. The people of Firle were experiencing a lot of problems with Traveller that would travel off! So they had a public display of anger at the lack of action being taken against this problem.

Every year at Lewes there are banners up say "No Popery!" Now forgive me if I'm wrong but doesn't that offend every Catholic in the world! And I can tell you there are quite a few of them! They even burn/blow up images of the Pope. Yet Lewes doesn't require protection from the police! Why not? Does that mean the police are treating gypsies differently to Catholics? Bit racist that isn't it?

In conclusion; They shouldn't have done it as they should realise the country we live in shroud everyone in cotton wool. However, I defend there right to do it without persecution. Free speech anyone? I'm going to go and take a huge dump on Tony Blair's garden. If he complains then I'll call him a racist!

and relax...

 

[DTES]

Surely it's not what they actually were, but who the family in the effigy was intended to be...

 

[Raphael Meade]

For Christ’s sake!

Ok a Gypo is not another 'race' and therefore this is not racist.

Stereotyping causes most racism, ie all blacks are criminals, all Asians smell of curry etc. Obviously this is not true and thus is truly racist and views held only by people with an IQ in the cretin bracket.

However, Gypsies all live on land they do not own and the enormous majority do not pay any rent! A large proportion do not even ask permission. fact.

I cannot comment on their ability to lay a drive as I would never employ someone to do this on my own driveway if they had no fixed address to find them IF things went wrong.

How many Gypsies pay tax? Try offering a cheque for your driveway!

They leave behind a huge mess where ever they go, the majority do not pay tax. I doubt very much if in the eyes of the law if they exist at all!

If 'travellers' want to get on with the rest of society then they need to start playing by the rules and be accountable for their actions.

And as for the burning of a caravan! Well wow wee! It's a local bonfire (that's right things get burnt on bonfire night!) which deals with local issues. The people of Firle were experiencing a lot of problems with Traveller that would travel off! So they had a public display of anger at the lack of action being taken against this problem.

Every year at Lewes there are banners up say "No Popery!" Now forgive me if I'm wrong but doesn't that offend every Catholic in the world! And I can tell you there are quite a few of them! They even burn/blow up images of the Pope. Yet Lewes doesn't require protection from the police! Why not? Does that mean the police are treating gypsies differently to Catholics? Bit racist that isn't it?

In conclusion; They shouldn't have done it as they should realise the country we live in shroud everyone in cotton wool. However, I defend there right to do it without persecution. Free speech anyone? I'm going to go and take a huge dump on Tony Blair's garden. If he complains then I'll call him a racist!

and relax...

spot on. does that conclude matters everyone?

 

[DTES]

you can't drive anywhere without getting flashed by a speed camera

Oh, and this really pisses me off. Why are drivers above the rest of the population? Why should drivers be able to break the law without fear of prosecution? It's not like a shoplifter would complain if the shop used CCTV to prosecute is it? Please explain why this is different.

 

[Raphael Meade]

Oh, and this really pisses me off. Why are drivers above the rest of the population? Why should drivers be able to break the law without fear of prosecution? It's not like a shoplifter would complain if the shop used CCTV to prosecute is it? Please explain why this is different.

something that highly annoys me too. yes, i break the speed limit, yes i dont want points on my licence or a fine.

but if i do get flashed/stopped i understand that i have ABSOLUTELY NO DEFENCE AT ALL. i dont see how there can be any arguments, if the speed limit is 70 and i was doing 80, yes the speed limits a little slow. but i was breaking it. end of.

the whole coppers nicking people to boost their arrest quotas when they could be arresting real criminals (or pikey families ) is a whole different argument. maybe we can do that one tomorrow...

 

[Pavilionaire]

The purpose of speed cameras should be to penalise those who are driving at dangerously high speeds. I am all for this.

So is 36mph in a 30mph zone "dangerous"? Is 73mph on a empty dual carriageway "dangerous"? Or is this just a way of raising much-needed funds for police forces up and down the land?

 

[DTES]

73 on a empty dual carriageway? No.

36 past a school? Yes.

Technically breaking the law though.

Sorry to use the same comparison again, but it is the most obvious: Is stealing a Mars Bar going to seriously harm a shop's profits? No. Is it breaking the law? Yes. Could the owner prosecute? Yes. Still don't see a difference.

 

[Pavilionaire]

In my case there was no school anywhere nearby. It was a wide, tree-lined road with parked cars on both sides leading up to the A27, perfect visibility, little traffic, got done by a hand-held camera, presumably financed by the 40% increase in my council tax contribution to the local Police Authority for that year.

Re. breaking the law - there was a time when you could be deported to Australia for stealing a loaf of bread. Was that a good thing? Nowadays the letter of the law is being adhered to, rather than the spirit and the purpose of the law.

Anyway, back on topic. I think I've made my point, some will agree, some won't, either way I'll need to get back to work here so I can pay my taxes to help finance the costs of the Firle 10 Trials.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

about a page back someone said that they're not gonna vote for labout in the next election. I'm all for this, but the only problem is that there isn't any opposition worthy of leading this country. IMHO britain has improved since labour came into power, but i also feel that blair is a very poor leader and i think the Iraq war confirmed this thought. I wouldn't like that twat howard in power and i don't feel the lib dems are strong enough yet.......so, if you're not voting 4 labour, who are you gonna vote for?

 

[Sorrel]

I think sometimes people forget just how radical a political movement Protestantism was in the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries. For very, very good reasons, during those centuries, all leaders of Roman Catholic states were in great fear of the threat to their state by Protestants. In a classic historical manouvre, our Protestant (of sorts) state has, in the past, decided that the political-religious protestant movement of the reformation was a religious movement (and thus its dead are martyrs) whereas the political-religious catholic movement of the period was a political movement (and thus its dead are not martyrs).

AFAIK the number of Protestants burned under Mary was around 250. The number of Catholics burned under Elizabeth was 0. So I don't consider the two sides equal here. The events of the 16th century certain did create martyrs to religion - they weren't fighting for political freedom.

The Catholic regimes of the times you mention were all violent absolute monarchies. The government of Britain was a (partial) parliamentary democracy by the late 1600s, and to a certain extent was even earlier. I'm surprised to see you support the forces of reaction against the (more) enlightened view of the English.

Obviously things went a little too far at times in the 1640s and 1650s, but you seem to have far too much sympathy with the absolutist regimes in the 16th to 18th centuries.

 

[Raphael Meade]

too right on the voting point. as much as i dislike blair and labour, somehow i can't really see howard or the bloke who's so forgettable i cant recall his name leading the country.

not that i'm a tory but they shouldve got hague back. i wouldve voted for him.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Lib Dem.

I agree that Labour is a busted flush and the Tories under Howard is a bone-chilling prospect. I also happen to think that Lib Dem speakers make the most sense and come across well, and Labour have nicked loads of their ideas over the years.

If everyone seriously contemplating voting for the Lib Dems actually said "f*** it, let's do it" they would have 1/3rd of the vote and be seriously in the mix.

 

[Raphael Meade]

i really cannot see the lib dem party being capable of running this country.

 

[Lammy]

I like the way burning people alive is considered;

"going little too far..."

 

[Dave the OAP]

Pav

an interesting arguement about a tree lined lane, however, you obviously have been driving for a few years, and you know the speed limit is 30, or 40, etc etc.

If you speed along and get caught then tough shit mate.

Everyone who is a driver speeds. I have been stopped a few times, but fortunately have never received a caution etc.

When I get behind the wheel, I know the rules, I break them, I get caught, I pay the penalty simple as that.

The arguement is if you were doing 30 as opposed to 37, then the chances are that the child you would have hit if he/she ran out on you may have survived.

Dave

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Back to the bonfire ........ it was probably a funny idea in the pub after a few beers when they were planning the event. And it should have stayed in the pub.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I know what you're saying Dave but this was Offington Lane, a 30mph road doesn't get any wider just 200 yds from the A27, not some residential back road where a kid could run out.

I had no points or penalties in 15 years of driving until March of this year, and now I'm on 6 points. I drive a 5 year old Ford Focus and go the same speed as everybody else. At this rate I will be banned by the end of the season.

 

[CHAPPERS]

The Lib Dems would f*** this country right up.

 

[DTES]

Originally posted by tommy boy 86

about a page back someone said that they're not gonna vote for labout in the next election. I'm all for this, but the only problem is that there isn't any opposition worthy of leading this country.

Yes, that was me. And the lack of opposition capable/worthy of running the country is irrelevant. Labour themselves would have to think seriously about a lot of things if they're majority were seriously reduced. So voting for either the Tories or Lib Dems would have an impact. I'm a Lib Dem myself, and can't see myself voting Tory this side of the destruction of the universe, so that's where I'll be marking the X.

Originally posted by Pavilionaire

If everyone seriously contemplating voting for the Lib Dems actually said "f*** it, let's do it" they would have 1/3rd of the vote and be seriously in the mix.

So true. I myself know people who simply don't vote for them because "they're not going to win, are they".

Originally posted by Raphael Meade

i really cannot see the lib dem party being capable of running this country.

Maybe not, but they'd make a much more effective opposition than the tories.