Firle bonfire - racism ?

[FG aka Football Genius.]

can u honestly belive whoever drew the children look out caravan window didnt know that this was going to be burned and that people were gonna cheer? is it not racist to sing build a bonfire and stick bill oddy and archer in middle and top? especially as a bottle of archers would just ignite the fire more!

 

[Pavilionaire]

I really do think that the thick twats who bang on about 'p.c. society' etc really should go away and research political correctness (a linguistic theory) - that way you won't make an idiot of yourself spouting utter nonsense.

Separate from that issue is the issue of the Firle bonfire - which is clearly hate-mongering of some kind (I am happy to call it racism, but if you aren't, perhaps you can at least recognise it is despising people for their way of life). In particular, the use of the phrase 'pikey' is highly objectionable.

If the good people of Firle had put a representation of blacks on the bonfire with the word '******' written on it, or a representation of south Asians with the word 'Paki' on it, I would hope you would consider that racist. If you do, can you please explain the difference between what actually happened and these two hypothetical cases?

And don't use the excuse of 'custom'. It has, in the past, been customary to call blacks 'niggers'. And to treat women as chattels. And to treat the lives of the poor as expendable. And so on. Luckily, 'custom' has not been used as a pathetic excuse to maintain these practices in MODERN Britain.

It's not hate-mongering FatBadger. These people appear from nowhere, terrorise the locals, don't pay any taxes and leave a mess behind them. The authorities do nothing to prevent this, but if the villagers show any signs of protest they are the ones who are arrested.

And don't give me all that "What if they had been Pakistani / Black faces" bollocks. As Liam Brady said "If my granny had had balls she would have been my grandad", i.e. they weren't black or Pakistani in the first palce, so don't give me the "What if" argument?

 

[Titanic]

Just what the hell has that got to do with a bunch of bigots displaying hatred in a very public way?

I really do think that the thick twats who bang on about 'p.c. society' etc really should go away and research political correctness (a linguistic theory) - that way you won't make an idiot of yourself spouting utter nonsense.

Too late unless he discovers 'edit'.

As the only one to have mention 'p.c. society' in this thread, I assume that I am the 'thick twat' being referred to.

Without wishing to sound arrogant, I don't think either epithet are appropriate - and the implicit assertion of some stereotypical characterisation are also way off the mark.

I could simply label you as 'angry lefties', with all the usual hypocritical and shallow implications - but on this day of remembrance I don't need this sort of nonsense.

 

[Simster]

All I know is that if I were a traveller and my kids stumbled across this type of thing, I know they'd be terrified and probably have sleepless nights for days.

Personally I think these snooty Firle twats are well out of order, and I'm speaking as someone who doesn't like "pikeys" and their tendancies not to pay tax and leave a mess wherever they go. But if you are a resident having to "put up" with people from this culture on your doorstep who are displaying illegal and antisocial behaviour, there are surely better ways to get things done than incite this sort of hatred. Gate your property if you don't want people on your land, and gnaw away at them by reporting cars without tax discs and any littering of public property if you feel the need - there is nothing wrong with using the law to your advantage, and certainly no need for terrorising these people.

As for what is p.c and what is not, I guess you make your own minds up. But shaking your head at disbelief because a football crowd call some burberry capped wankers a bunch of pikeys is PC gone mad in my view. Who really gives a toss?

 

[beorhthelm]

the whole episode IS political correctnes gone out of hand (not withstanding any histroy of this term, using it as it is commonly understood). We burn effigies of the Pope in Lewes and several other local hate figures would have gone up. 6 years ago it would have been Arshole+Bellend. yet theres no press coverage and everyone accepts it as a little quirk of us strange types from Lewes district.

So why's this any different? They claim thats its rascist but its not. Gypsies have an offical status as a race, but "travellers" dont. "Pikey" is a term i woud associate more with the later. OK im splitting hairs with semantics, but so will the lawyers so why bother wasting everyones time on this. The whole thing has been blown out of proportion.

the comment that this is a bunch of "tarquins" is bollox. these are average people like you and me, and many of them Albion fans too

 

[fatbadger]

And don't give me all that "What if they had been Pakistani / Black faces" bollocks. As Liam Brady said "If my granny had had balls she would have been my grandad", i.e. they weren't black or Pakistani in the first palce, so don't give me the "What if" argument?

Eh? I didn't say "what if" they were blacks, I said, what if the same had been done in opposition to blacks in the area.

 

[fatbadger]

We burn effigies of the Pope in Lewes and several other local hate figures would have gone up.

Can you tell me why the Pope is a hate figure in Lewes? I am not being facetious, I am being serious. Obviously, I know the history of the Gunpowder Plot, but was there a particular historical event that made the Pope a hate figure in Lewes? I only ask because my knowledge of the local history of Sussex is not as good as it could be.

 

[REDLAND]

Can you tell me why the Pope is a hate figure in Lewes? I am not being facetious, I am being serious. Obviously, I know the history of the Gunpowder Plot, but was there a particular historical event that made the Pope a hate figure in Lewes? I only ask because my knowledge of the local history of Sussex is not as good as it could be.

Coz it gives their pets the night off !!

 

[beorhthelm]

Pope is simply the representive of the catholic church. There where a lot of Protestant martyrs burnt in Lewes, so the things a bit of general anti-catholic vibe.

 

[REDLAND]

Pope is simply the representive of the catholic church. There where a lot of Protestant martyrs burnt in Lewes, so the things a bit of general anti-catholic vibe.

Is the correct answer

 

[ripper]

Seems to me this is a joke that badly backfired, and I dare say all involved will be regretting it now.

I think arrests are OTT. PC gone mad.

I imagine they will think twice before choosing next year

 

[Dandyman]

Pope is simply the representive of the catholic church. There where a lot of Protestant martyrs burnt in Lewes, so the things a bit of general anti-catholic vibe.

It's Pope Paul V rather than John Paul (George Ringo) - who was the RC pontiff at the time of the Jesuit inspired gunpowder plot.

I think it's also worth pointing that Cliffe Bonfire Society (of which I am a proud member) who are sometimes accussed of anti-catholic bigotry have a number of catholic members as well as probably a larger number of agnostic/athiest ones.

 

[Mr C]

Spot on Mr C. The sooner we deal with the real problem, and stop letting these bloody foreigners in in the first place, the sooner our Empire can grow again.

Empire building is next week.

 

[Ex-Staffs Gull]

2 points :

Firstly the figures in the window were the problem, pretending to burn a caravan with people in it becomes more than symbolic. This was stupid, crass and the people who did it need to be dealt with byt the law.

Secondly, Pikeys was a word used regularly when I grew up, and didn't refer to Gypsies, Travellers etc, it refered to a 'TYPE' of character, not a race , crede or religion. This character had certain traits
a) Not registered within the area (with no static fixed abode)
b) Lived outside the law.
c) Had no consideration for those around them who were not in their community.

These are characteristics that define a Pikey IMHO, and I do not like them. If anybody here feels comfortable with these people, consider them moving into a field next to you house, or a car park/waste ground etc. The trouble these encampments bring are well documented and everybody is aware of them. What anoys people is there is no effort being made (perceptual anyway) to restrict the actions of these people.

Cue the abuse, but that is how I feel.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Why do the people need to be dealt with by the law? What law have they broken?

Really, is this a good use of police time and taxpayers money? After all, do you really suppose those that created and burnt the effigy are going to go on an anti-pikey rampage? Of course not. If those pikeys hadn't been anti-social in the first place none of this would have happened.

 

[fatboy]

How an earth is calling someone a pikey being racist?

I call Danny Seagull a pikey and he is from the same race as me.

 

[Sorrel]

It seems that this is a confusion between racial groups, and individuals.

Many Bonfire Societies burn effigies of people they dislike. Often these people are known to the society, and high up within it: policeman, politicians, etc. There is no outcry.

It seems to me that the people at Firle burnt an effigy of individuals who had been causing them trouble this year. This is exactly the same as any other Bonfire Society.

People who don't understand Bonfire have picked up on it, and assumed that were advocating the burning of all gypsies. Unless this is the case, and I bet they will deny that, then they've done nothing wrong.

Should every Bonfire Society now only burn effigies of people who are already dead? We all would happily burn Archer now, but does that mean we advocate burning all northerners?

 

[sully]

Well said Duncan H.

I find it incredible that we are roused into a lot of anti-catholic feeling by the Lewes societies every year and nobody ever mentions it.

Most wars are caused by religion, so shouldn't the police be stopping that as well?

It really is a load of old tosh being fuelled by people who see but don't understand.

 

[Hannibal smith]

Burning a guy on Bonfire night is a tradition, Firle this year targetted the travelling community. It dosen't mean that people will start burning caravans with live people on it on November 6th any more than someone who watches Rambo will go out shooting people, just that a tradition is being upheld. And people are now being arrested.

Whilst I agree that this probably wasn't the smartest idea it hardly warrants PC plod getting involved and arresting people. After all I believe people who should be arrested are those that are causing harm to society like muggers, burglers not those that are actually organising a community event whether you like the sentiment or not.

 

[looney]

Lefties like to confuse race and culture so they can smear more people they disagree with.

1. The last pure Romany blood family lived in epsom, there all mixed blood or didicai(spelling?).

2. without going into detail I consider pikeys a criminal class like freemasons.

If someone acuses you of racism ask for a resonable explanation, just cos someone THINKS its racist does NOT make it racist.

There is the question of intent of the so called abuser, something leftists in there conseited arrogance tend to ignore.


Were the Firlites in any way refering to the pikeys geneology? Or was this a reaction to a certain groups behaviour.

Go figure.