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[Football] England v Italy UEFA Euros qualifier 7.45



Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,404
Goldstone
Because the Ref gave bookings out as soon as we started to time waste, I wish more Refs would.
Did you check how many seconds he booked us after? It was about 20, which is ridiculous. One was because the player was getting a dry ball to throw.
 




Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,404
Goldstone
Unless you crave the days where club players would sit at their own tables and not interact
That's the one thing Southgate has done right, he's made the team a, er, team. That is crucial and shows up how stupid previous managers have been. But it is too much to ask for a manager who can get a team to play for one another, and also have some tactical awareness?
 


Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
32,037
Brighton
He booked Rice for pointing out that the Italians were constantly within 10 yards of our free kicks and the ref was doing nothing about it.

He seemed absolutely determined to send one of ours off.
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
So you think he wasn't at all sore, and that he was just time wasting? I think you're confused.

Seeing as the serial cheat is often hurt when he’s not even been touched, it was hard to tell, but no I don’t think he was badly hurt. He rolls around and throws himself to the ground after minimal contact so often that I never give him the benefit of the doubt. If anyone is confused it’s you, or maybe you are just an admirer who doesn’t see what a cheat he is.
 


Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
12,383
Cumbria
Seeing as the serial cheat is often hurt when he’s not even been touched, it was hard to tell, but no I don’t think he was badly hurt. He rolls around and throws himself to the ground after minimal contact so often that I never give him the benefit of the doubt. If anyone is confused it’s you, or maybe you are just an admirer who doesn’t see what a cheat he is.
He did look winded - but he was off the pitch, so should have recovered there.
 






Jeremiah

God is great
Mar 15, 2020
2,281
Hove
Seeing as the serial cheat is often hurt when he’s not even been touched, it was hard to tell, but no I don’t think he was badly hurt. He rolls around and throws himself to the ground after minimal contact so often that I never give him the benefit of the doubt. If anyone is confused it’s you, or maybe you are just an admirer who doesn’t see what a cheat he is.
Are you referring to Mr Kane ? If so I was delighted to see him play the Italians at their own game - not so keen on him doing it at the Amex though.
 














Jim in the West

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 13, 2003
4,674
Way out West
Did you check how many seconds he booked us after? It was about 20, which is ridiculous. One was because the player was getting a dry ball to throw.
The funny thing was, he then added virtually zero time on at the end for the time-wasting (there were 5 added minutes, but this broadly covered the substitutions....there was also a huge amount of time taken for the Shaw sending off, but he seemed to have forgotten about that!)
 


Sepulveda

Notts County's younger cousins' fan
Mar 19, 2023
419
Northern Italy
I have absolutely no problem with the ‘dark arts’ including Kane crawling onto the pitch. If we had been 2-1 down and that was Italians doing that we would be enraged but would grudging admit they have the know how how to get over the line in tough games.

It seems that now it’s not enough for England to win we have to do it playing glorious attacking football as well as playing a purer brand of football with no dark arts than most teams. Frankly a few fans need to wake up and grow up.
That's the thing, it's part of football. It's not nice, sporting or respectful, but as long as it's within the rules you do anything to win a big match - and you accept the consequences (cards, hate etc.)
It's your role as a player to do it and it's my role as the opposition supporter to be annoyed by it and get angry/insult you; neither is wrong. Of course you can take the moral high ground and not do those things, but in very big matches I'd surely be glad if my players tried anything if it was necessary to win.
Now, I don't consider that of last night a big match, but if it was important for your players - and given that there was only a 1-goal difference and they were under heavy pressure - and if I think about it with a cool head, I can't rationally begrudge them anything. Irrationally, I'm an Italian supporter and I'll obviously absolutely hate to see them do it.

On another note, some English football fans (not referring to this site) have a weird perception of what "cheating" is in football; I remember some Tottenham fans saying we were cheats for defending a 2-1 against them, or making a tactical foul. Same thing happened for Chiellini's tactical foul on Saka at the Euros. It was a textbook tactical foul, also with 0 harm done to the opposing players which isn't exactly a given. And yet people shouted about red cards ( :ROFLMAO: ) and clamored about cheating. Defending isn't cheating, it's just defending. The rules are still always applied, e.g. if you make a foul like that one you know you'll obviously get a yellow.

I also always found it funny that you call them "dark arts", it's a very magical and charming way to describe some of the most unsophisticated, banal actions in the game. Adds a nice mystical aura to them lol
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,404
Goldstone
Seeing as the serial cheat is often hurt when he’s not even been touched, it was hard to tell, but no I don’t think he was badly hurt. He rolls around and throws himself to the ground after minimal contact so often that I never give him the benefit of the doubt. If anyone is confused it’s you, or maybe you are just an admirer who doesn’t see what a cheat he is.
Nope, I know he cheats all the time. But he wasn't time wasting, he took a ball to the nuts and wanted a second to get over it before the corner was taken. Unless you know of some magical force that means cheats can't ever get hurt.
 




Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
That's the thing, it's part of football. It's not nice, sporting or respectful, but as long as it's within the rules you do anything to win a big match - and you accept the consequences (cards, hate etc.)
It's your role as a player to do it and it's my role as the opposition supporter to be annoyed by it and get angry/insult you; neither is wrong. Of course you can take the moral high ground and not do those things, but in very big matches I'd surely be glad if my players tried anything if it was necessary to win.
Now, I don't consider that of last night a big match, but if it was important for your players - and given that there was only a 1-goal difference and they were under heavy pressure - and if I think about it with a cool head, I can't rationally begrudge them anything. Irrationally, I'm an Italian supporter and I'll obviously absolutely hate to see them do it.

On another note, some English football fans (not referring to this site) have a weird perception of what "cheating" is in football; I remember some Tottenham fans saying we were cheats for defending a 2-1 against them, or making a tactical foul. Same thing happened for Chiellini's tactical foul on Saka at the Euros. It was a textbook tactical foul, also with 0 harm done to the opposing players which isn't exactly a given. And yet people shouted about red cards ( :ROFLMAO: ) and clamored about cheating. Defending isn't cheating, it's just defending. The rules are still always applied, e.g. if you make a foul like that one you know you'll obviously get a yellow.

I also always found it funny that you call them "dark arts", it's a very magical and charming way to describe some of the most unsophisticated, banal actions in the game. Adds a nice mystical aura to them lol
If you want a lesson in sophisticated dark arts you should concentrate on Joel Veltman the next time you watch the Albion :smile:
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
Nope, I know he cheats all the time. But he wasn't time wasting, he took a ball to the nuts and wanted a second to get over it before the corner was taken. Unless you know of some magical force that means cheats can't ever get hurt.
Can’t find the clip so no proof but I thought he got hit in the lower chest and not the nuts?
 


Sepulveda

Notts County's younger cousins' fan
Mar 19, 2023
419
Northern Italy
If you want a lesson in sophisticated dark arts you should concentrate on Joel Veltman the next time you watch the Albion :smile:
Will do :) I'm not surprised because being a fullback he plays on the wing, and if you play on the wings you have to know and use some dark arts. From the matches I've seen he seemed a very competent and reliable defender, which is the best kind of defender.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,404
Goldstone
Can’t find the clip so no proof but I thought he got hit in the lower chest and not the nuts?
If you say so. But if he wanted to go down and waste time, why not take a step onto the pitch, and then go down? It looked like he went down because it actually hurt. There were plenty of 'oh my head' opportunities that our team didn't take. And if you think we cheated as much as the Italians, I think you're mad. They're born cheats. Take the Euros, when Immobile tried to buy a penalty, and when his teammate scored his broken leg was immediately cured.

I know Kane cheats, he's one of our worst, but even he can't hold a candle to the Italians.
 




Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
Did you check how many seconds he booked us after? It was about 20, which is ridiculous. One was because the player was getting a dry ball to throw.
20 seconds to take a throw-in and fiddling around with a towel... sorry, but I don't mind a yellow. In the Premier League he wouldn't get one.

If you take more than 10 seconds before throwing the ball after you've gotten hold of it, I think a yellow card is perfectly fine.
 




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