[Misc] Electric Cars

[Bozza]

Still in my first week of ownership but doing the Goring to Burgess Hill trip a couple of times, it seems like my mi/kwh figure is better on the way up which is A24 and cross country through Partridge Green and Twineham than the journey back which is A23/A27.

Do people find it generally the case that you get better 'economy' on slower routes or is it the impact of the regenerative braking that comes with roundabouts and country roads?

Yep. Faster speed = more air resistance = lower range.

A broad rule of thumb I read somewhere-or-other is you lose c10% of range for every 5mph above 40mph you do.

 

[Audax]

On return journeys when aiming to get home without a 'splash and dash' I find having Google maps or whatever satnav you use on with distance remaining and keep monitoring the difference between that and the GOM. If the difference is closing rapidly then modify your speed especially on motorways.

I've done this a few times. Really good advice IMO.

Largely it is just speeds. You get a lot more miles for your charge at 55mph than at 70mph.

Speeds, and also road types. Know what roads you'll be on and when. Motorways where traffic is flowing will eat range. A roads where you've got corners, junctions, etc and a little more stop-start and range will improve. More uphill than downhill and range will suffer (and vice versa).

Also, with EVs ... back off when following traffic. The less you have to brake-accelerate the better. Sit back far enough from the car in front that you can lift-and-coast to manage the gap rather than feeling the need to use the brakes and your GOM will thank you.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Still in my first week of ownership but doing the Goring to Burgess Hill trip a couple of times, it seems like my mi/kwh figure is better on the way up which is A24 and cross country through Partridge Green and Twineham than the journey back which is A23/A27.

Do people find it generally the case that you get better 'economy' on slower routes or is it the impact of the regenerative braking that comes with roundabouts and country roads?

Yes, deffo speed, but also I would think the first bit of the journey would be hampered because the battery is cold, so needs to work harder. Hence why a lot of cars now have pre-conditioning. It's funny because a lot of people will say they want to get home as fast as possible, even if they have to charge – and yet if they dropped their speed a bit, they would have the miles to get home WITHOUT having to charge and it would STILL be quicker than stopping to charge.

I've had it a few times (just last week, in fact) where I thought I would be stopping at Pease Pottage, but because the M25 was busy, the average speed along it was such that I made up enough miles to NOT have to stop

This comes back to my wider point that I've probably said here (and certainly have committed to print), that many EV drivers drive more slowly (to eek out the miles) and are therefore more relaxed and – arguably – safer. I certainly am.

 

[alanfp]

Yup.

The car will travel at a steady speed (e.g. motorway) without using any energy (Newton's 1st law)... APART FROM having to overcome any resistance like friction and air resistance. Air resistance is proportional to the SQUARE of the speed, so the resistive force at 70 mph is virtually DOUBLE that at 50 mph.

Energy is used to accelerate the car (Newton's 2nd law of motion aka F=ma) but a significant amount will be recovered by recharging the battery when slowing down (if you can avoid using the brakes as much as possible).

And energy is required to go uphill, as that increases the car's potential energy (m x g x h) but on average this largely gets recovered by recharging the battery when going downhill to the same elevation that you started at.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Yup.

The car will travel at a steady speed (e.g. motorway) without using any energy (Newton's 1st law)... APART FROM having to overcome any resistance like friction and air resistance. Air resistance is proportional to the SQUARE of the speed, so the resistive force at 70 mph is virtually DOUBLE that at 50 mph.

Energy is used to accelerate the car (Newton's 2nd law of motion aka F=ma) but a significant amount will be recovered by recharging the battery when slowing down (if you can avoid using the brakes as much as possible).

And energy is required to go uphill, as that increases the car's potential energy (m x g x h) but on average this largely gets recovered by recharging the battery when going downhill to the same elevation that you started at.

So you’re telling me that if I want to drive at 70 on the motorway, it’s best to do it right up close behind a big truck?

 

[Greg Bobkin]

So you’re telling me that if I want to drive at 70 on the motorway, it’s best to do it right up close behind a big truck?

'Best' is subjective (clearly it's not the safest method of driving!), but it can work if you're looking to maximise efficiency, yes.

 

[Bozza]

So you’re telling me that if I want to drive at 70 on the motorway, it’s best to do it right up close behind a big truck?

Probably not.

Because BIG trucks are limited to 60mph.

 

[Eric the meek]

Full disclosure: I'm a luddite. I own a Toyota Corolla 2005 plate, which I hardly use. On Friday, I had to call the AA out as it had a flat battery. Fair enough. The new battery cost me £150.

In talking to the AA bloke, he showed me his van, and in the back, he had an automatic fold down trailer, which is able to tow both 2 and 4 wheel drive cars.

I made a mental note of how things have developed. AA vans never used to have - or need - an integral trailer. Most breakdowns were solved at the roadside.

Tonight, I watched the Ch 5 programme: Electric cars: Are they really worth it? The programme featured, among many things, an AA man with, also with the trailer in the back. The unsaid implication was obvious. AA vans now have to have a trailer in them, to tow the EVs that break down, because they can't fix them at the roadside.

I know EVs are new. They will get better.....

 

[Fungus]

Full disclosure: I'm a luddite. I own a Toyota Corolla 2005 plate, which I hardly use. On Friday, I had to call the AA out as it had a flat battery. Fair enough. The new battery cost me £150.

In talking to the AA bloke, he showed me his van, and in the back, he had an automatic fold down trailer, which is able to tow both 2 and 4 wheel drive cars.

I made a mental note of how things have developed. AA vans never used to have - or need - an integral trailer. Most breakdowns were solved at the roadside.

Tonight, I watched the Ch 5 programme: Electric cars: Are they really worth it? The programme featured, among many things, an AA man with, also with the trailer in the back. The unsaid implication was obvious. AA vans now have to have a trailer in them, to tow the EVs that break down, because they can't fix them at the roadside.

I know EVs are new. They will get better.....

I didn’t watch it, but it sounds like you’re assuming a lot from an “unsaid implication”.

 

[Eric the meek]

I didn’t watch it, but it sounds like you’re assuming a lot from an “unsaid implication”.

You don't understand. The trailer wasn't required in the past. It was featured in the program. It now takes up a huge amount of valuable space in the van, and takes it very close to the vehicle's legal weight limit.

The AA have modified their fleet of vans to cater for modern cars. Electric cars.

 

[Ali_rrr]

Just received a Cupra from work and decided to have a spontaneous trip to Düsseldorf, which meant going on the autobahn.


I think my battery was decreasing 1% every 3 seconds.

 

[Bob!]

Full disclosure: I'm a luddite. I own a Toyota Corolla 2005 plate, which I hardly use. On Friday, I had to call the AA out as it had a flat battery. Fair enough. The new battery cost me £150.

In talking to the AA bloke, he showed me his van, and in the back, he had an automatic fold down trailer, which is able to tow both 2 and 4 wheel drive cars.

I made a mental note of how things have developed. AA vans never used to have - or need - an integral trailer. Most breakdowns were solved at the roadside.

Tonight, I watched the Ch 5 programme: Electric cars: Are they really worth it? The programme featured, among many things, an AA man with, also with the trailer in the back. The unsaid implication was obvious. AA vans now have to have a trailer in them, to tow the EVs that break down, because they can't fix them at the roadside.

I know EVs are new. They will get better.....

A lot has changed since 2005.

 

[dolphins]

ALL cars break down/have a prang/etc., but the difference is that you can't tow an electric without damaging the motor(s), hence the need for the trailer for the situations where a car needs taking to a garage etc..

 

[Eric the meek]

A lot has changed since 2005.

Including evidently, the AA's ability to fix cars at the roadside.

 

[nicko31]

ALL cars break down/have a prang/etc., but the difference is that you can't tow an electric without damaging the motor(s), hence the need for the trailer for the situations where a car needs taking to a garage etc..

Depends on the vehicle, I know Porsche's are a problem

 

[dolphins]

Depends on the vehicle, I know Porsche's are a problem

I thought it was all EVs but obvs and wouldn't be the first time, I could be wrong! I know for Teslas too that's the advice - trailer rather than tow.

 

[chickens]

You don't understand. The trailer wasn't required in the past. It was featured in the program. It now takes up a huge amount of valuable space in the van, and takes it very close to the vehicle's legal weight limit.

The AA have modified their fleet of vans to cater for modern cars. Electric cars.

Actually, what you’ll find is that modern vehicles don’t include a spare wheel. Once you’ve tried the can of ineffective goop (ineffective on tears in the tyre) and that hasn’t worked, towing to a tyre place (or having a mobile tyre fitter come out) becomes the only option.

Nothing to do with electric vehicles, everything to do with the lack of spare wheel.

 

[Eric the meek]

Actually, what you’ll find is that modern vehicles don’t include a spare wheel. Once you’ve tried the can of ineffective goop (ineffective on tears in the tyre) and that hasn’t worked, towing to a tyre place (or having a mobile tyre fitter come out) becomes the only option.

Nothing to do with electric vehicles, everything to do with the lack of spare wheel.

Ah, you haven't googled 'can an EV be towed''? Teslas and Nissan Leaf can in tow mode; the rest can't, and need a flatbed tow truck instead. Or membership of the AA with an automatic fold down trailer.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Full disclosure: I'm a luddite. I own a Toyota Corolla 2005 plate, which I hardly use. On Friday, I had to call the AA out as it had a flat battery. Fair enough. The new battery cost me £150.

In talking to the AA bloke, he showed me his van, and in the back, he had an automatic fold down trailer, which is able to tow both 2 and 4 wheel drive cars.

I made a mental note of how things have developed. AA vans never used to have - or need - an integral trailer. Most breakdowns were solved at the roadside.

Tonight, I watched the Ch 5 programme: Electric cars: Are they really worth it? The programme featured, among many things, an AA man with, also with the trailer in the back. The unsaid implication was obvious. AA vans now have to have a trailer in them, to tow the EVs that break down, because they can't fix them at the roadside.

I know EVs are new. They will get better.....

I don't see what the problem is – technology evolves all the time and I know for a fact that the AA now has a healthy fleet of vans to help people who run out of charge at the roadside, alongside the ones that help people sort their ICE cars out when they misfuel. Having spoken to Edmund King, the AA's president (who has a Porsche Taycan EV as his daily driver), a few times over the years, he doesn't seemed phased about the transition to EV and is happy to support it.

There's also the fact that EVs have fewer moving parts and components to go wrong, so there should be fewer breakdowns anyway. Electronics might put spanners in the works, but that's not an issue that just affects EVs.

I work in the industry and meant to watch that programme last night, but I caught the last few minutes and probably won't bother. One of the statements was along the lines of "We were all promised a dream driving experiences, but that might not be the case." WHAT? Who said that and when? Because anyone who is involved with EVs – either manufacturers, journalists, drivers, fleets, whoever – realise that it's a slow process that will have challenges along the way. If that snippet was an insight to the standard of the rest of the programme, I'm out. And don't get me started on Erin bloody Baker!

 

[GOM]

You don't understand. The trailer wasn't required in the past. It was featured in the program. It now takes up a huge amount of valuable space in the van, and takes it very close to the vehicle's legal weight limit.

The AA have modified their fleet of vans to cater for modern cars. Electric cars.

I'd say a high percentage modern cars of any drive train cannot be fixed by the roadside unless it's a flat battery or puncture. Everything these days in any car is all electronics.