[Palace] Eddie Izzard is now........

[Razzoo]

Self identification is not at all problematic most of the time but check out the flipside.
https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-teen-charged-w…
Edit. I don't think that link works but a search on Barbie Kardashian is an example of why it isn't without serious issues.

 

[beorhthelm]

Whatever they ask me to use, which has so far included he, she or they.
Who cares?

well a lot of people apparently.

you missed the thrust of the question. sex is biology, female and male. so if talking about someone in that context, what pronouns to use? or dont use any?

 

[The Clamp]

But if a fully-equipped man insists that his jail sentence is in Holloway? Or that he should be allowed into a women’s spa or changing room?

At best, it’s just pandering to narcissism. At worst, the above examples could turn very nasty.

But of course we’re now living in a madhouse where everything that was accepted until a couple of years ago is now bigoted and fascistic and fools trip over themselves to virtue signal how right on they are.

Well, that's an interesting issue. I may be mistaken but I don't think there has been a precedent set yet. Funnily enough, this has come up a few times where I work but I don't think a definitive decision has been made yet, it's in process now I believe.

You say "everything was accepted until a couple of years ago".. I'm gonna go ahead and assume you're not a historian Have you heard of the Greeks? The Romans? The Victorians?

 

[RossyG]

Whatever they ask me to use, which has so far included he, she or they.
Who cares?

It has the potential to destroy women’s sport, so I imagine sportswomen might care, for another example.

 

[highflyer]

well a lot of people apparently.

you missed the thrust of the question. sex is biology, female and male. so if talking about someone in that context, what pronouns to use? or dont use any?

As I said, I use whatever they ask me to use.

When I am talking about/interacting with someone, I am inevitably engaging with them in the context of a role they play in society (that sounds a bit w*nky I know, but not sure how else to put it), and I view them not as a sexual object, but as a social person. Thus I regard them (and talk about them) in terms of their gender, not their bilogical sex (which seems a bit of a crude way to define a person).

As a middle age man, this can feel odd sometimes, but less so than many other things about the world these days and overall, I see the benefits of getting this right massively outweighing any potential harm.

 

[RossyG]

Have you heard of the Greeks? The Romans? The Victorians?

Yes. Your point?

 

[The Clamp]

Yes. Your point?

Your response is my point

Have a look at their attitudes to gender. You may want to sit down. None of this is new. Including your attitude to it all.

 

[The Clamp]

It has the potential to destroy women’s sport, so I imagine sportswomen might care, for another example.

It is unlikely to destroy it.

 

[highflyer]

It has the potential to destroy women’s sport, so I imagine sportswomen might care, for another example.

It really doesn't.

There are plenty of options to manage that problem, although it may involve some compromise.

For instance:

https://blogs.bmj.com/medical-ethic...sport-clarifying-the-nuances-of-our-approach/

 

[RossyG]

Your response is my point

Have a look at their attitudes to gender. You may want to sit down. None of this is new. Including your attitude to it all.

I don’t recall Victorian public figures apologising for misgendering someone. Or were they deplatformed for calling Burlington Bertie she?

As for the Greek and Romans, I wouldn’t hold them up as great examples when it comes to matters of sex. Ever read The Satyricon?

 

[The Clamp]

I don’t recall Victorian public figures apologising for misgendering someone. Or were they deplatformed for calling Burlington Bertie she?

As for the Greek and Romans, I wouldn’t hold them up as great examples when it comes to matters of sex. Ever read The Satyricon?

Yes.
My point is, this isn't a recent phenomenon. Gender fluidity and the blurring of lines has been occurring ever since we became self aware.

Anyway, good luck with it all. Try not to let what other people like to be called affect you too much

 

[RossyG]

Well, I won’t be the one being sexuality assaulted in a women’s changing room or hospitalised with a sporting injury, so it shouldn’t affect me too much.

 

[highflyer]

I don’t recall Victorian public figures apologising for misgendering someone. Or were they deplatformed for calling Burlington Bertie she?

As for the Greek and Romans, I wouldn’t hold them up as great examples when it comes to matters of sex. Ever read The Satyricon?

I think the point is that trans people have always existed and are present in every society globally. As are those who's sexuality is not aligned with the majority.

I've lived in places, and met both trans and gay people, where it is entirely unacceptable, and sometimes illegal, to be that way. These people often lived miserable, frightened and lonely lives as a result. Personally, I think a civilised society can and should do much better. It may take us a while to figure out the best way to do it, but we are still learning and heading in the right direction.

 

[schmunk]

Self identification is not at all problematic most of the time but check out the flipside.
https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-teen-charged-w…
Edit. I don't think that link works but a search on Barbie Kardashian is an example of why it isn't without serious issues.

Well done you for linking to a whacko single-issue website dedicated to discrediting transgender people. You win today's Internet Prize.

 

[RossyG]

I think the point is that trans people have always existed and are present in every society globally. As are those who's sexuality is not aligned with the majority.

But we’re not talking about trans or gay people. We’re talking about men announcing they are to be addressed as she. It’s a very different thing.

Gay isn’t transgender and transgender isn’t “Did you just misgender me? I’m a victim!!!”

Izzard and Sam Smith are immature, attention-seeking Twats

It’s about time adults started saying no to these idiots.

 

[Razzoo]

Well done you for linking to a whacko single-issue website dedicated to discrediting transgender people. You win today's Internet Prize.

Moron

 

[The Clamp]

But we’re not talking about trans or gay people. We’re talking about men announcing they are to be addressed as she. It’s a very different thing.

Gay isn’t transgender and transgender isn’t “Did you just misgender me? I’m a victim!!!”

Izzard and Sam Smith are immature, attention-seeking Twats

It’s about time adults started saying no to these idiots.

Personally I find your attitude far more immature and far more attention seeking.

Besides which, I was referring to all kinds of gender fluidity etc, not just trans people.

I'm genuinely sorry that this subject has got you so angry. Life is much nicer when we let people who are doing no harm, get on with their lives and don't call them names because of a preference of how they like to be addressed.


You're the sort of chap that would have objected to women who preferred being called "Ms." in the 1950's. It's really no different.

 

[The Clamp]

Moron

He's right though.

 

[RossyG]

Lol. I object to women being called Ms now.

 

[herecomesaregular]

I think some of it may be the discomfort people feel that they have to "walk on eggshells" when addressing people who are a bit different to them. When you work with all sorts of oddballs (and I mean that in a warm not harsh way, as I'm an oddball myself) it becomes less of a big deal i imagine.