combat 18

[BrianWade4]

Didn't the 18 stand for 1= a and 8 = h, the initials of Adolf hitler? Or was that an urban myth?

I heard this

 

[cunning fergus]

the one's in the camps , working as camp guards or the zonderkommando, bit of a difference
regards
DR

Sure, my point was that there were plenty of Poles that fought for Germany, many volunteered and served in Whermacht and SS, others in helping the Germans elsewhere.

The poles are not unique to that end the Germans had plenty of support in Europe, particularly in their struggle with Russia........the Finns are a perfect example of that.

Hatred of Russian oppression drives different outlooks, the situation in Ukraine another example. It's no coincidence that Ukraine largely welcomed the Germans in WW2 as liberators.

 

[cunning fergus]

I would have thought it had something to do with living under an oppressive dictatorship then rapid transformation to 'liberal democracy' and capitalism. It polarises the population, when they look back in history the most victorious nation during the 30s due to racialism and national socialism must appeal to them. Because they've had their national identity stripped under USSR, then flooded with foreigners in order to bolster their work force will inevitably create tension and looking for alternative ideas. Easier to blame someone else than yourself.

Maybe, I think with Poland they are fiercely nationalistic for a number of reasons not least as a consequence of being squeezed between 2 massive nations. Having been unable to project their national culture under the USSR for decades, I suspect having new cultural values imposed on them by unelected Europeans are creating the view that they remain as powerless now as they were then.

 

[cunning fergus]

And to add to the complication it is worth noting the difference between Polish citizens and ethnic Poles here. Interwar Poland contained what is now western Ukraine, western Belarus and Wilno which is the current capital of Lithuania and thus around 30% of the population were of non-Polish ethnicity. There was a very vicious local civil war between Poles and Ukrainians happening at the time where the Germans would occasionally ally with one or other side to eradicate dangerous partisan groups.

Agreed, plus many "poles" were previously of East Prussia, they were culturally as German as the Sudetans down in Czechoslovakia, as it was then.

Ethnic and cultural chaos in Europe is as old as the hills.

 

[atfc village]

Did you go to Pompey by the way
regards
DR

I certainly did ,splendid day avoided all the bother in 3 different Pubs.Sad to see Pompey's famous author at his age trying to kick off with non itk people after the game by The Rifle Club near Fratton Station.For the replay The OB trying to shut all Pubs,any that open have been advised to have 6 door staff ,plastic beer Glasses and remove all furniture.

 

[Return of the Rev]

I certainly did ,splendid day avoided all the bother in 3 different Pubs.Sad to see Pompey's famous author at his age trying to kick off with non itk people after the game by The Rifle Club near Fratton Station.For the replay The OB trying to shut all Pubs,any that open have been advised to have 6 door staff ,plastic beer Glasses and remove all furniture.

Is it all ticket?

 

[BN9 BHA]

Is it all ticket?

Not if you are good at tree climbing

 

[atfc village]

Is it all ticket?

Yes All ticket 6000 sold apparently of the 7000 capacity.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I certainly did ,splendid day avoided all the bother in 3 different Pubs.Sad to see Pompey's famous author at his age trying to kick off with non itk people after the game by The Rifle Club near Fratton Station.For the replay The OB trying to shut all Pubs,any that open have been advised to have 6 door staff ,plastic beer Glasses and remove all furniture.

Ah the good old rifle club , popped in there for a social on my last visit to Pompey
regards
DR

 

[GreersElbow]

Maybe, I think with Poland they are fiercely nationalistic for a number of reasons not least as a consequence of being squeezed between 2 massive nations. Having been unable to project their national culture under the USSR for decades, I suspect having new cultural values imposed on them by unelected Europeans are creating the view that they remain as powerless now as they were then.

Therein lies my main point...

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Sure, my point was that there were plenty of Poles that fought for Germany, many volunteered and served in Whermacht and SS, others in helping the Germans elsewhere.

The poles are not unique to that end the Germans had plenty of support in Europe, particularly in their struggle with Russia........the Finns are a perfect example of that.

Hatred of Russian oppression drives different outlooks, the situation in Ukraine another example. It's no coincidence that Ukraine largely welcomed the Germans in WW2 as liberators.

Any illusions the Ukranians had about the Germans as liberators very soon vanished. The Finns were very reluctant allies to Germany, forced into the axis because of the Russian invasion in 1939.

It is true that there were many many Europeans who opted to fight with the Nazis against Bolshevism. Most notably the Danes, the Belgians, French, Croats, and Dutch.

There was also a small British SS force I believe...the Legion of St George or "Britishcher Freikorps"or somesuch, recruited from POWs. None of them were tried for treason after the war for some reason.

 

[daveinprague]

Any illusions the Ukranians had about the Germans as liberators very soon vanished. The Finns were very reluctant allies to Germany, forced into the axis because of the Russian invasion in 1939.

It is true that there were many many Europeans who opted to fight with the Nazis against Bolshevism. Most notably the Danes, the Belgians, French, Croats, and Dutch.

There was also a small British SS force I believe...the Legion of St George or "Britishcher Freikorps"or somesuch, recruited from POWs. None of them were tried for treason after the war for some reason.

The Prague uprising, which strangely came after the fall of Berlin, was going badly. The Russians stopped outside the city for some reason, and the Americans stopped at Plzen. In the end, the Russian Liberation Army (Recruited Russian prisoners of war and anti communists) known as Vlasovs Army suddenly changed sides, and brought their heavy weapons to bear on the Germans, and it was over pretty quickly.
We handed over the RLA to the Soviets, and they were executed or spent the rest of the lives in labour camps.


I remember reading somewhere that it was mostly French SS who were defending Berlin at the end.
Ukrainians recruited by the Germans seem to have been heavily engaged in anti jewish, anti partizan and concentration camp activities.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The Prague uprising, which strangely came after the fall of Berlin, was going badly. The Russians stopped outside the city for some reason, and the Americans stopped at Plzen. In the end, the Russian Liberation Army (Recruited Russian prisoners of war and anti communists) known as Vlasovs Army suddenly changed sides, and brought their heavy weapons to bear on the Germans, and it was over pretty quickly.
We handed over the RLA to the Soviets, and they were executed or spent the rest of the lives in labour camps.


I remember reading somewhere that it was mostly French SS who were defending Berlin at the end.
Ukrainians recruited by the Germans seem to have been heavily engaged in anti jewish, anti partizan and concentration camp activities.

Hitler jurgen and volksturm in the mix as well, ............Hans frank
regards
DR

 

[Dandyman]

Sure, my point was that there were plenty of Poles that fought for Germany, many volunteered and served in Whermacht and SS, others in helping the Germans elsewhere.

The poles are not unique to that end the Germans had plenty of support in Europe, particularly in their struggle with Russia........the Finns are a perfect example of that.

Hatred of Russian oppression drives different outlooks, the situation in Ukraine another example. It's no coincidence that Ukraine largely welcomed the Germans in WW2 as liberators.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...After the Nazi invasion of Poland the Germans formally annexed parts of Poland and claimed them as Reich territory. The citizens in those territories were forcibly conscripted into the Wehrmacht army in Upper Silesia and in Pomerania. They were declared citizens of the Third Reich by law and therefore subject to court-martial in case of draft evasion or a refusal to serve.

Non-German camp guards tended to be Ukranian not Polish.

 

[Dandyman]

Any illusions the Ukranians had about the Germans as liberators very soon vanished. The Finns were very reluctant allies to Germany, forced into the axis because of the Russian invasion in 1939.

It is true that there were many many Europeans who opted to fight with the Nazis against Bolshevism. Most notably the Danes, the Belgians, French, Croats, and Dutch.

There was also a small British SS force I believe...the Legion of St George or "Britishcher Freikorps"or somesuch, recruited from POWs. None of them were tried for treason after the war for some reason.

John Amery was executed for treason http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Amery

After the War, British and American secret services used Baltic Nazis to carry out acts of terrorism in the Soviet Union.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...After the Nazi invasion of Poland the Germans formally annexed parts of Poland and claimed them as Reich territory. The citizens in those territories were forcibly conscripted into the Wehrmacht army in Upper Silesia and in Pomerania. They were declared citizens of the Third Reich by law and therefore subject to court-martial in case of draft evasion or a refusal to serve.

Non-German camp guards tended to be Ukranian not Polish.

ivan the terrible(JD)
regards
DR

 

[cunning fergus]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...After the Nazi invasion of Poland the Germans formally annexed parts of Poland and claimed them as Reich territory. The citizens in those territories were forcibly conscripted into the Wehrmacht army in Upper Silesia and in Pomerania. They were declared citizens of the Third Reich by law and therefore subject to court-martial in case of draft evasion or a refusal to serve.

Non-German camp guards tended to be Ukranian not Polish.

No doubt, but that does not disprove my point that many tens of thousands of Poles still fought for Germany, just as they did in WW1.

Poland in the inter war years was a deeply anti Semitic society, even lauded politicians like Dmowski, (who led the Endeks) advocated forced deportation of polish Jews in the 30s so there were plenty of Poles happy to offer up the Jews to the Germans and shovel them into the ovens.

As there were many from other European countries, I would not single out Poland.

 

[cunning fergus]

Any illusions the Ukranians had about the Germans as liberators very soon vanished. The Finns were very reluctant allies to Germany, forced into the axis because of the Russian invasion in 1939.

It is true that there were many many Europeans who opted to fight with the Nazis against Bolshevism. Most notably the Danes, the Belgians, French, Croats, and Dutch.

There was also a small British SS force I believe...the Legion of St George or "Britishcher Freikorps"or somesuch, recruited from POWs. None of them were tried for treason after the war for some reason.

Don't disagree, however it is still true that thousands of Ukrainians allied themselves to the Germans not necessarily as a consequence of nazi ideology but a greater hatred of Russia.

To that end so did the Finns, but I wouldn't go as far to say they were forced, it was a mutually convenient alliance.

That said, the Finns do love a swastika........even today.