[Music] British v American Punk

[BLOCK F]

The Residents? The Cramps? I like them both but cramming them into a box labeled 'punk' is sheer idiocy.

Edit, ditto Television and Devo. I hate Devo. f***ing American art school wankers being 'kooky'. I remember going to see the first UK screening of Eraserhead at Screen on the Green and they showed Devo film to start. Christ.

Harry amongst your wondrous academic achievements, did you manage to fit in a PhD in ‘The Appreciation of Weird and Wonderful Music Genres’ ?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Growing up my kids were big on pop punk- The kind of stuff that was always being played on Kerrang TV - Green Day, Blink 182, Good Charlotte, All Time Low, Sum 41, The All American Rejects etc. Being the patronising old dad that I am, whenever it appeared, and it would appear very often in various guises, I would always point out that what they called 'the pop punk riff' was from 'Alternative Ulster.'* They are a band that aren't hugely acknowledged but their influence quietly resonated across the Atlantic.


* - Yes, I'm sure it goes back much further to blues musicians, but I don't think that 90s suburban kids in America were getting it from Son House.

My son was into all that shit. I hated it. I especially hated Green Day.

 

[Kosh]

The Residents? The Cramps? I like them both but cramming them into a box labeled 'punk' is sheer idiocy.

I always suspected Cherry Red to be a little more prog and heavy rock loving, you know, behind the scenes… kind of like me compiling a Punk box bound to go off on a tangent… take a band like Man for example … I’d have found a way

Oh yes, If I’d complied it I’d have included bands like Dust and the proto punk not a shitery of Yesterday’s Children… lol.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

Harry amongst your wondrous academic achievements, did you manage to fit in a PhD in ‘The Appreciation of Weird and Wonderful Music Genres’ ?

He started it, but was persuaded by Jimmy to go down the pub instead

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Harry amongst your wondrous academic achievements, did you manage to fit in a PhD in ‘The Appreciation of Weird and Wonderful Music Genres’ ?

Well, I like lots of stuff, and that's a fact.

There was a point in the late 70s when a lot of artists suddenly became old, and very hostile to the new stuff. Earlier, Eric Clapton nearly packed it it after seeing Hendrix, because he was so out of Hendrix's league. I found Clapton's later belligerence rather unpalatable. I get very irritated by people obsessed by 'musicianship' as they see it. If electric guitar playing is a competition then first prize was awarded many years ago - to John McLaughlin. Unfortunately most Claptonites can't cope with McLaughlin. Too musicianly.

And what they would make of the delightful minimalism of Wire is unknown.

Enjoy whatever noise you fancy, would be my advice. For some, who have decided that music 'stopped' at a certain date (Dany Baker says 1977) what they listen to is simply the comfort of the familiar. Perhaps that applies to you. I used to sneer at that, but not now. Who am I to dictate what other people are supposed to enjoy?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I always suspected Cherry Red to be a little more prog and heavy rock loving, you know, behind the scenes… kind of like me compiling a Punk box bound to go off on a tangent… take a band like Man for example … I’d have found a way

Oh yes, If I’d complied it I’d have included bands like Dust and the proto punk not a shitery of Yesterday’s Children… lol.

I've seen Man. Twice. Once at the Top Rank where they did only three (long tedious) numbers, and later at the Dome, with Deke Leonard, doing more snappy short tunes.

As for Cherry Red, one of my favourite albums by Eyeless in Gaza (Rust Red September) is on that label. It was an 'alternative' label in the 80s. Things change. Innit.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

He started it, but was persuaded by Jimmy to go down the pub instead

I hate that record. I saw them at the Roxy and the stage was taken over by the naffest nobs ever. They looked like wanky football supporters, season ticket holders at Colchester or Leyton Orient. I swear one of them was wearing a tank top.

I did buy 'I don't wanna' ('Red London/Ulster' on the b side) when it came out, but that was more than enough Sham 69 for me.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Well, I like lots of stuff, and that's a fact.

There was a point in the late 70s when a lot of artists suddenly became old, and very hostile to the new stuff. Earlier, Eric Clapton nearly packed it it after seeing Hendrix, because he was so out of Hendrix's league. I found Clapton's later belligerence rather unpalatable. I get very irritated by people obsessed by 'musicianship' as they see it. If electric guitar playing is a competition then first prize was awarded many years ago - to John McLaughlin. Unfortunately most Claptonites can't cope with McLaughlin. Too musicianly.

And what they would make of the delightful minimalism of Wire is unknown.

Enjoy whatever noise you fancy, would be my advice. For some, who have decided that music 'stopped' at a certain date (Dany Baker says 1977) what they listen to is simply the comfort of the familiar. Perhaps that applies to you. I used to sneer at that, but not now. Who am I to dictate what other people are supposed to enjoy?

I'd go for Holdsworth over McLaughlin.
Although that has more to do with Holdsworth apparently being the world's nicest man and a beer enthusiast (while McLaughlin worbles on about spirituality and all that) as it does any objective views on their playing, which is so far above me I may as well offer an opinion on Trinitarianism.

As it happens, I love Claptons playing as well. But The Clash wouldn't have been improved if any of those 3 had played with them anyway. Although once they'd gotten over the whole "racist outburst" thing they might have found common ground with Clapton over reggae music.

In any case, music's great and people should listen to it.

 

[Stato]

My son was into all that shit. I hated it. I especially hated Green Day.

They were the ones I did like. I actually had 'Dookie' myself before the kids were born. Went off them a bit when I had to accompany the kids to 'American Idiot' the Green Day musical. I haven't voted for US or UK punk as I like and dislike artists from both sides. Now, had the choice been 'Punk' and 'Punk performed by the musical theatre trained'....

 

[Weststander]

Surely Movement is the very New Order output that he does like, and feels was betrayed!? Half of it was written while Ian Curtis was still around, wasn't it?

I share your feelings on the evolution though - I didn't mind them morphing from the dark, heavy stuff, to the electro-synth stuff - purely because it was bloody GOOD. Surely everybody loves Blue Monday, Everything's Gone Green, Thieves Like Us... and for the next few years right through to the likes of Bizarre Love Triangle.

I think True Faith was a bit of a turning point - I love it personally - but can see how it could have been a step too far for some 'cool' folk who had followed the band since the start - it is VERY POP - they were inches from turning into the Pet Shop Boys at this point.

I love all of JD and NO up to when you say. With two amazing (imho) outliers after that … World in Motion and the track Mr Disco.

Movement just sounds so different from Closer/Unknown Pleasures, oozing synths, melodies, Barney a very different vocalist (reticent, learning on the job). Singles such as Temptation, I just can’t imagine Ian Curtis singing that. Some of the NO songs reflected the chase/greed for females, male vanity, the main hobby of Barney and Hookie.

I was listening to Movement again today, the album of my sixth form days, nectar!

 

[WATFORD zero]

Best Album of 1977 Harry ? Still love it to this day



Regularly played at the Inn place under the Alhambra for those REALLY in the know

 

[Weststander]

Best Album of 1977 Harry ? Still love it to this day



Regularly played at the Inn place under the Alhambra for those REALLY in the know

Brilliant vocalist. Great non-Punk albums in 77 ….. Arrival, Rumours and Oxygene.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Brilliant vocalist. Great non-Punk albums in 77 ….. Arrival, Rumours and Oxygene.

Far better guitarist than vocalist ! Other great 77 albums that I remember well ?

In the City - Jam
My aim is True - Elvis Costello
New Boots - Ian Dury
Exodus - Bob Marley
All n All - EWF

But not a lot of punk

 

[Weststander]

Far better guitarist than vocalist ! Other great 77 albums that I remember well ?

In the City - Jam
My aim is True - Elvis Costello
New Boots - Ian Dury
Exodus - Bob Marley
All n All - EWF

But not a lot of punk

Personally, I love GB’s sumptuous vocals. I definitely didn’t as a 12 year old, that came later from times at The Suite and Busby’s.

78 …. albums kicked off.

77 …. not forgetting Saturday Night Fever’s singles

 

[WATFORD zero]

Personally, I love GB’s sumptuous vocals. I definitely didn’t as a 12 year old, that came later from times at The Suite and Busby’s.

78 …. albums kicked off.

77 …. not forgetting Saturday Night Fever’s singles

I bought this in about 1974 (released 8 years earlier) and was sold on him as a guitarist, whilst still listening to Hawkwind, the Pink Fairies, The Kinks, Zappa and Beefheart



But sadly, Never a Punk

 

[Weststander]

I bought this in about 1974 (released 8 years earlier) and was sold on him as a guitarist, whilst still listening to Hawkwind, the Pink Fairies, The Kinks, Zappa and Beefheart



But sadly, Never a Punk

Before my time being allowed to stay up for Peel, but from his autobio he adored some of those artists.

I love The Kinks, Ray Davies so talented.

 

[rebel51]

What a cracking thread, makes ya take your mind off the headbanging stuff for a bit, which is all things bhafc.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think True Faith was a bit of a turning point - I love it personally - but can see how it could have been a step too far for some 'cool' folk who had followed the band since the start - it is VERY POP - they were inches from turning into the Pet Shop Boys at this point.

Wasn't True Faith a deliberate attempt to have a hit? I recall they, or Factory, needed money, so wrote a hit. For the record, pun obviously intended, I think it’s an amazing song.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I saw them with Bon Scott on vocals at the Top Rank.

I thought hey were a bit shit.

I have seen them many times but never with Bon Scott. I personally thought he was a brilliant lyricist, fronting an excellent band. Their output after he died was initially great, but soon descended into parody.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I hate that record. I saw them at the Roxy and the stage was taken over by the naffest nobs ever. They looked like wanky football supporters, season ticket holders at Colchester or Leyton Orient. I swear one of them was wearing a tank top.

I did buy 'I don't wanna' ('Red London/Ulster' on the b side) when it came out, but that was more than enough Sham 69 for me.

Don’t care for the song that much, but I do once recall being in the beer garden of The Hobgoblin one sunny Sunday afternoon a few decades ago, this came on the juke box or maybe a DJ played it, and the whole of the garden sang the “we’re going down the pub” bit. Amused me at the time.