[Music] British v American Punk

[SeagullsoverLondon]

Same here, but with huge respect for Punk.

Punk, synths and drum machines made post Punk and New Wave possible.

So, almost back to the start of the thread, my daughter who has now started to read up on these things, asked me what’s the difference between New Wave and punk or post punk?

I said flippantly that punks wore ripped clothes or bondage trousers and new wave bands wore skinny ties. And Post punk bands ditched the mohicans.

Prefered New Wave to be honest e.g. XTC, Joy Division, Television, Talking Heads etc..

It’s interesting you picked two North American bands and two British bands there, labelling them all as New Wave, because to my mind, musically they are quite different.

 

[Weststander]

So, almost back to the start of the thread, my daughter who has now started to read up on these things, asked me what’s the difference between New Wave and punk or post punk?

I said flippantly that punks wore ripped clothes or bondage trousers and new wave bands wore skinny ties. And Post punk bands ditched the mohicans.


It’s interesting you picked two North American bands and two British bands there, labelling them all as New Wave, because to my mind, musically they are quite different.

In 1979, I could be wrong, I mainly knew the term New Wave. A very wide definition of everything non-heavy metal that immediately followed the initial UK punk explosion. So many examples, XTC, Boomtown Rats, Split Endz, Talking Heads, Police, Jam, Elvis Costello, the original Ultravox, Human League, Simple Minds. With sub categories such as Mod and Electronic.

Over the decades since, writers and punters seem to have refined it further based on timing and sound eg Post Punk.

@Harry Wilson's tackle …. your thoughts?

 

[lasvegan]

In 1979, I could be wrong, I mainly knew the term New Wave. A very wide definition of everything non-heavy metal that immediately followed the initial UK punk explosion. So many examples, XTC, Boomtown Rats, Split Endz, Talking Heads, Police, Jam, Elvis Costello, the original Ultravox, Human League, Simple Minds. With sub categories such as Mod and Electronic.

Over the decades since, writers and punters seem to have refined it further based on timing and sound eg Post Punk.

@Harry Wilson's tackle …. your thoughts?

Various - New Wave

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1977 Vinyl release of "New Wave" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

 

[jakarta]

So, almost back to the start of the thread, my daughter who has now started to read up on these things, asked me what’s the difference between New Wave and punk or post punk?

I said flippantly that punks wore ripped clothes or bondage trousers and new wave bands wore skinny ties. And Post punk bands ditched the mohicans.


It’s interesting you picked two North American bands and two British bands there, labelling them all as New Wave, because to my mind, musically they are quite different.

They can be different but still New Wave...

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I love the evolution of JD/NO, the band of my youth. Post punk JD, followed by early 80’s NO with a more synth based sound and Gillian, then the NO you despise. To me brave, mostly magical. My favourite NO album is Movement, no one ever selects that!

I don't despise them now.
I really struggled with them in my youth.
Felt they had betrayed Curtis and refused to listen to their work.
I came around eventually.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

In 1979, I could be wrong, I mainly knew the term New Wave. A very wide definition of everything non-heavy metal that immediately followed the initial UK punk explosion. So many examples, XTC, Boomtown Rats, Split Endz, Talking Heads, Police, Jam, Elvis Costello, the original Ultravox, Human League, Simple Minds. With sub categories such as Mod and Electronic.

Over the decades since, writers and punters seem to have refined it further based on timing and sound eg Post Punk.

@Harry Wilson's tackle …. your thoughts?

Yes, I wouldn't disagree with anything you said there. I seem to remember New Wave was quite an umbrella term for anything that wasn't prog rock or disco, but wasn't quite raw enough to be called punk.
I don't actually recall post punk to be a term that was widely used at the time, but has since been retrofitted to some of the darker, less "poppy" bands.
Then by the early 80s it seemed to be either Goth or New Romantic bands that dominated.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

In 1979, I could be wrong, I mainly knew the term New Wave. A very wide definition of everything non-heavy metal that immediately followed the initial UK punk explosion. So many examples, XTC, Boomtown Rats, Split Endz, Talking Heads, Police, Jam, Elvis Costello, the original Ultravox, Human League, Simple Minds. With sub categories such as Mod and Electronic.

Over the decades since, writers and punters seem to have refined it further based on timing and sound eg Post Punk.

@Harry Wilson's tackle …. your thoughts?

I’m thinking about some of the bands I was into at this time, and which we used to get played at the Meeching Hall disco. I remember The Skids, Spizz Oil/Energi, The Monochrome Set, loads of stuff from Attrix records, Bow Wow Wow, Honey Bane, OMD, John Foxx’s Ultravox, Cockney Rejects, PiL, Stranglers, The Cure come to mind.

 

[Crispy Ambulance]

I’m thinking about some of the bands I was into at this time, and which we used to get played at the Meeching Hall disco. I remember The Skids, Spizz Oil/Energi, The Monochrome Set, loads of stuff from Attrix records, Bow Wow Wow, Honey Bane, OMD, John Foxx’s Ultravox, Cockney Rejects, PiL, Stranglers, The Cure come to mind.

That’s not a bad list tbh. The Monochrome Set were vastly underrated but Jet Set Junta was utterly brilliant!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That’s not a bad list tbh. The Monochrome Set were vastly underrated but Jet Set Junta was utterly brilliant!

Fun time and I was finding my way with this music. I was very young, but new some older people (some from @Weststander ’s crowd) who were into this music.

 

[Seagull58]

I have not (and in true punk spirit am not going to) read the rest of this thread, but just wanted to put on record that the Clash sound nothing like a punk band should sound, and that the Minutemen were the glorious pinnacle of American Punk.

White Riot, Janie Jones World, Career Opportunities, Tommy Gun etc. etc. etc.

 

[Seagull58]

I’ve just checked and I hadn’t, but on first listen, while closer to what I’d describe as a punk sound, it still retains a certain sheen that I find distinctly un-punk. It somehow sounds “glossy” to me. The fault may be more with the production team than the artist (as what I’m listening to proudly states it’s been remastered) but it still feels to me as if the band are trying to be punk, rather than it being a natural fit.

I’d agree that it’s much closer to what I’d describe as punk than London Calling though, which to my mind is not a punk record by any metric.

(dons tin hat and waits for the rain of Molotov cocktails to die down)

The first Clash album is pure punk, Give 'em enough rope has some punk, London Calling has left punk in the rear view mirror. I've never listened to Sandanista.

 

[Seagull58]

No one has mentioned Stiff Little Fingers yet.

Alternative Ulster is a wonderful punk song. I love their version of Johnny Was too, better than Bob Marley's original.

 

[loz]

Various - New Wave

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1977 Vinyl release of "New Wave" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

Funny you show that New wave lp, I had a nice evening watching Johnny moped with him on Saturday, Derek the lad spitting beer is still very active in the scene and sings with the Satellites.

That may have been the first compilation punk LP I think ?.

 

[chickens]

The first Clash album is pure punk, Give 'em enough rope has some punk, London Calling has left punk in the rear view mirror. I've never listened to Sandanista.

I think the first Clash record I heard was London Calling, and there was nothing there that made me want to examine the back catalogue.

Consider my position revised, early Clash can be described as punk, by the time London Calling came around, they had morphed into a mildly annoyed UB40.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

What a magnificent thread.

classic UK punk for me was Pistols, Dammed, early Clash (1st Album), UK Subs, Ruts, The Zero’s, Subway Sect, Penetration, Vibrators, Sham 69 , Slaughter and the Dogs to name a few. New Wave was more of Buzzcocks, XTC, Doll, The Adverts, Boomtown Rats and X Ray Specs amongst others.

Motorhead was clearly a heavy Metal band yet there was something very punky about them.

From the US it was Ramones, Television and Richard Hell but tbh never listened much to them. As i‘ve aged I’ve listened more to The Stooges, NYD, Patti Smith, MC5 and The Velvet Underground again to name few.

For me the roots of punk started back in the sixties with 60’s garage of consisting of Them, The Standells, MC5, The Stooges, The Seeds and The Sonics again to name a few.

A with all the bands above and many more that I’ve missed. Some of it was shit but mostly it’s heaven.

 

[Seagull58]

That’s not a bad list tbh. The Monochrome Set were vastly underrated but Jet Set Junta was utterly brilliant!

I like some of piL's output, notably Rise, but The Cowboy Song is probably the worst track ever released (B side of The Public Image) and Death to Disco is not far behind. i think young Mr Lydon deliberately released utter dogshit now and again just for attentio,n.

 

[Seagull58]

I think the first Clash record I heard was London Calling, and there was nothing there that made me want to examine the back catalogue.

Consider my position revised, early Clash can be described as punk, by the time London Calling came around, they had morphed into a mildly annoyed UB40.

Guns of Brixton cannot be compared to Rat in the Kitchen in any universe, let alone this one.

 

[Seagull58]

What a magnificent thread.

classic UK punk for me was Pistols, Dammed, early Clash (1st Album), UK Subs, Ruts, The Zero’s, Subway Sect, Penetration, Vibrators, Sham 69 , Slaughter and the Dogs to name a few. New Wave was more of Buzzcocks, XTC, Doll, The Adverts, Boomtown Rats and X Ray Specs amongst others.

Motorhead was clearly a heavy Metal band yet there was something very punky about them.

From the US it was Ramones, Television and Richard Hell but tbh never listened much to them. As i‘ve aged I’ve listened more to The Stooges, NYD, Patti Smith, MC5 and The Velvet Underground again to name few.

For me the roots of punk started back in the sixties with 60’s garage of consisting of Them, The Standells, MC5, The Stooges, The Seeds and The Sonics again to name a few.

A with all the bands above and many more that I’ve missed. Some of it was shit but mostly it’s heaven.

Motorhead's thrash metal sound owes a lot to punk. A good list of punk bands there. I always enjoyed Crossing the Red Sea with The Adverts. Very punk imo.
Remember If you're in a rut you need to get out of it, out of it...............out if it.

 

[chickens]

Guns of Brixton cannot be compared to Rat in the Kitchen in any universe, let alone this one.

You can crush us, you can bruise us
But you’ll have to answer to
There’s a rat in the kitchen
What am I gonna do?

 

[Seagull58]

You can crush us, you can bruise us
But you’ll have to answer to
There’s a rat in the kitchen
What am I gonna do?

That's just wrong on every level