[Politics] Brexit

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's a game. They say they want a deal while there isn't one which can get through. Give them a deal which looks like going through and they will find a reason to oppose it.

All they have to do is oppose a deal and oppose no deal.

That, by default, means no Brexit, which is what a majority of MP's want.

The majority of the public, they don't matter.

Are you telling us that Brexit won’t happen?

 

[dingodan]

The reason for that is very simple.

1. There is no 'good deal' to be had. It was a fantasy invented by the Leave campaign that has never existed and the one deal that did exist, a majority didn't want. That why Johnson can't begin negotiations with the EU, because he has no proposal to put forward.

2. 'No deal' is, and always has been 'project fear', just about in it's entirety and there's no majority for that either.

Think of it like adults putting a fireguard around a fire to protect naive young children. It's not so exciting, but You know it's for the best. Of course, there is one way to prove me wrong simply ask the electorate.

Why bother asking the electorate?

The electorate and their opinions don't matter.

 

[beorhthelm]

What a weird reply.

1) Who’s fault is it, if it isn’t the Home Office?
2) This is about residency, not citizenship. So quite what your points about “citizenship” and your example of ID cards has to do with this I don’t know. Have you got the two confused?

just saying the Home Office does not have the power to do what you are suggesting, it would require a government to pass law. the ID cards is a example of something related that the Home Office has pushed for and been rejected.

 

[dingodan]

Are you telling us that Brexit won’t happen?

It absolutely will not happen.

 

[BensGrandad]

How will the EU leaders be viewing the latest moves, do they want an extension? Would they rather us leave with no deal than grant and extension as they have indicated that an extension is not on the table. How will they view the state of our MPs all wanting their own way like spoiled children.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There will never be any deal which parliament will vote for, and they will always block no-deal.

People can vote to leave the EU, they can vote for MP's based on their promise to honor that vote, but in the end, the people have no power, they have no say.

Brexit will never happen. Remain, by crook or by hook, will be the end result.

What about the tax dodgers who desperately want to leave by January 2020, such as Rees-Mogg and Johnson?

 

[pastafarian]

I'll make a prediction. There are only three ways out of this complete clusterf***

1. Soft Brexit with Customs Union (or call it 'backstop')
2. 'No deal', economic disaster and border in NI
2. 2nd Referendum

Sound familiar ?

Previously on Northstandchat

I really can't see anything beyond the three options

1/ Soft Brexit with No borders and regulatory alignment

2/ No agreement and WTO

3/ Withdraw article 50

What happened to your softest of soft brexits you were so fond of using as an option before changing it to soft Brexit?
Previously you predicted general regulatory alignment, ie the whole of the UK,full UK regulatory alignment was all the talk and was what had come out of EU proposals at the time of your prediction
But things have changed, and so have your options. You have dropped the wording of regulatory alignment, because your previous version no longer fits, and replaced it to include backstop, the version of which is current now, the current backstop has regulatory alignment that is limited to Northern Ireland and not the full UK as you had in your previous option version.
I suspect the people who have always wanted a straight withdrawal of Article 50 (revoke) with no more referendums, (the just kick Brexit into touch brigade) will also be asking why you have now kicked that option into touch and why you have changed that prediction option to 2nd referendum instead. The hard core revokers don’t want a 2nd referendum, they want to go straight to revoke through parliament, and only a simpleton says revoke A50 and hold a second vote are the same thing.
So, does it sound familiar?.....nope, not in the slightest. As usual you continue to move the goalposts and change the options.
Change the record, you broke it ages ago.

Surely, it's only fair to find out which is the preferred leave option by the democratic majority, rather than assuming which leave we should implement ?

And it can be easily done without splitting the leave vote

https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?368879-1st-2nd-choice-Referendum-Poll&highlight=Triggaaar

OK then, ask the public the preferred option of Leaving the EU...

Following the Referendum decision to Leave the EU-How should the UK Leave the European Union?

A/ Leave with the EU/UK deal on the Table
OR
B/ Leave with No Deal

No Remain option is needed, a remain option is not Leaving. And you are seeking the preferred option of leaving.

 

[pb21]

It absolutely will not happen.

Yes it will.

It just won't happen on 31st October 2019 without a deal, hopefully.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

Why bother asking the electorate?

The electorate and their opinions don't matter.

You certainly don't seem interested in them.

 

[Lever]

Previously on Northstandchat




What happened to your softest of soft brexits you were so fond of using as an option before changing it to soft Brexit?
Previously you predicted general regulatory alignment, ie the whole of the UK,full UK regulatory alignment was all the talk and was what had come out of EU proposals at the time of your prediction
But things have changed, and so have your options. You have dropped the wording of regulatory alignment, because your previous version no longer fits, and replaced it to include backstop, the version of which is current now, the current backstop has regulatory alignment that is limited to Northern Ireland and not the full UK as you had in your previous option version.
I suspect the people who have always wanted a straight withdrawal of Article 50 (revoke) with no more referendums, (the just kick Brexit into touch brigade) will also be asking why you have now kicked that option into touch and why you have changed that prediction option to 2nd referendum instead. The hard core revokers don’t want a 2nd referendum, they want to go straight to revoke through parliament, and only a simpleton says revoke A50 and hold a second vote are the same thing.
So, does it sound familiar?.....nope, not in the slightest. As usual you continue to move the goalposts and change the options.
Change the record, you broke it ages ago.





OK then, ask the public the preferred option of Leaving the EU...

Following the Referendum decision to Leave the EU-How should the UK Leave the European Union?

A/ Leave with the EU/UK deal on the Table
OR
B/ Leave with No Deal

No Remain option is needed, a remain option is not Leaving. And you are seeking the preferred option of leaving.

....and for those Leave voters who genuinely cannot bear either A or B and would now rather Remain than be forced to accept one of them? Likewise what about the 48% of voters who are marginalised by this?

 

[beorhthelm]

How will the EU leaders be viewing the latest moves, do they want an extension? Would they rather us leave with no deal than grant and extension as they have indicated that an extension is not on the table. How will they view the state of our MPs all wanting their own way like spoiled children.

over the summer i read/hear a consistent view from EU politicians is confusion, and that they dont to make any changes that wont be supported by parliament.

 

[dingodan]

You certainly don't seem interested in them.

The electorate were asked, and their instruction is going to be ignored.

Bit odd to suggest we ask them again, in view of the fact that their answer will be ignored.

Why would they even bother answering the question a second time if their answer doesn't actually make any difference?

 

[BensGrandad]

over the summer i read/hear a consistent view from EU politicians is confusion, and that they dont to make any changes that wont be supported by parliament.

To do that would mean disregarding the result of the referendum and views of the majority and give in to the remainers.

 

[pastafarian]

What about the tax dodgers who desperately want to leave by January 2020, such as Rees-Mogg and Johnson?

Since you appear to know.What tax measures are Mogg and Johnson hoping to dodge?

Nearly all the rules contained in the EU Anti Tax Avoidance directive that comes into force in jan 2020 exist already in UK legislation.
We are way ahead of the curve already.
Existing UK law for the majority of rules in the directive already "meet or exceed the minimum standards set by ATAD"

There are two measures that need to be introduced but these are in a separate clause in the directive and these have a different implementation date of 2022 not jan 2020.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...other-mismatches-anti-tax-avoidance-directive

So what specific tax laws are they desperate to try and avoid by january 2020?

 

[Igzilla]

What about the tax dodgers who desperately want to leave by January 2020, such as Rees-Mogg and Johnson?

And there's the real truth of what's going on.

 

[Eeyore]

Jeremy, Jeremy, Jeremy ...

Labour does want a general election. You know that. No-one would be foolish enough to allow it before this bill has passed though. But you know that too.

 

[pastafarian]

[/B]
....and for those Leave voters who genuinely cannot bear either A or B and would now rather Remain than be forced to accept one of them? Likewise what about the 48% of voters who are marginalised by this?

You having problems reading? He was quite specific, he wanted a vote on "preferred leave option"
A remain option is not leaving.

 

[The Clamp]

I know.

One day you will stand up for what you believe in and expect your voice to be heard.

You will be brushed aside, you will be outraged, and you won't have a leg to stand on. You were happy to throw away the principle that power rests with the people. One day that will be a principle you will go looking for, only to find it isn't there.

Get a grip. It’s not the end of democracy you drama queen. If we don’t leave, it’s simply the correct action to take when something is unimplimentable. Chin up, shoulders back, best of British.

 

[dingodan]

To believe that this country is a democracy is to believe a lie. It's clear as day. We are not governed by representitives, we are ruled by rulers.

I will never vote again. Part of me feels like I am "withdrawing my consent", but guess what? My consent doesn't matter either.

Push has finally come to shove over the last couple of years, and now we know where the power really lies in this country, and it is not with the people.

 

[Stat Brother]

So what specific tax laws are they desperate to try and avoid by january 2020?

Declaring the money in offshore accounts, a la tax havens like The Cayman Islands.