[Politics] Brexit

[dingodan]

Given your glorious saviour’s behaviour over the last six weeks, you are in a position unsuitable for judging.

He has been fighting against those who seek to defy the people. Those who seek to defy democracy itself.

 

[The Clamp]

He has been fighting against those who seek to defy the people. Those who seek to defy democracy itself.

No he hasn’t. He’s been rushing a No Deal through in an attempt to leave the EU before tax avoidance regs come into force. And he’s been caught out. Big time.
But lest we forget it’s not just no deal we need to secure it’s no Brexit. Let’s not lose sight of the bigger picture.
Not implementing a corrupt, illegal referendum to save the U.K. is for the greater good.

NO BREXIT.

 

[dingodan]

No it won't.

Trust in politics was already very low, with pretty much eveyone. Around half of people will like the fact that Brexit will be stopped. Around half will hate it.

But all will be forced to take note that their views, and their votes, don't actually matter.

If you think there aren't going to be severe consequences as a result of that, I'd suggest you haven't yet taken a step back from the side of this particular debate that you are on and looked at the bigger picture.

Democracy depends on consent, and consent depends on trust. When trust is lost so is democracy. & with that goes everything else. Maybe you think a society can carry on in the face of that regardless. Maybe you are right. But I worry about what that society will come to look like, and how it will manage to function without eventually degenerating into something ugly.

 

[WATFORD zero]

He has been fighting against those who seek to defy the people. Those who seek to defy democracy itself.

What like Johnson, JRM etc when they voted against leaving the EU

 

[beorhthelm]

I’ve said this many times before, that I find the bold text totally and utterly astonishing. The U.K. Home Office is a total joke. No wonder there are so many **** ups when it can’t even do the absolute basic.

this isnt a fault of the Home Office, simply our system of citizenship and governancedoes not have "registration" of the population. its not like they havent tried, every time a ID card is suggested its roundly shouted down, we dont do that sort of thing. it would certainly have dealt with some issues if we had.

 

[dingodan]

No he hasn’t. He’s been rushing a No Deal through in an attempt to leave the EU before tax avoidance regs come into force. And he’s been caught out. Big time.
But lest we forget it’s not just no deal we need to secure it’s no Brexit. Let’s not lose sight of the bigger picture.
Not implementing a corrupt, illegal referendum to save the U.K. is for the greater good.

NO DEMOCRACY.

Corrected for you.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Trust in politics was already very low, with pretty much eveyone. Around half of people will like the fact that Brexit will be stopped. Around half will hate it.

But all will be forced to take note that their views, and their votes, don't actually matter.

If you think there aren't going to be severe consequences as a result of that, I'd suggest you haven't yet taken a step back from the side of this particular debate that you are on and looked at the bigger picture.

Democracy depends on consent, and consent depends on trust. When trust is lost so is democracy. & with that goes everything else. Maybe you think a society can carry on in the face of that regardless. Maybe you are right. But I worry about what that society will come to look like, and how it will manage to function without eventually degenerating into something ugly.

Is it going to be stopped?

 

[dingodan]

Is it going to be stopped?

Yep.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

this isnt a fault of the Home Office, simply our system of citizenship and governancedoes not have "registration" of the population. its not like they havent tried, every time a ID card is suggested its roundly shouted down, we dont do that sort of thing. it would certainly have dealt with some issues if we had.

Blair had a chance to introduce Exit checks and chose not to. Passports are as good as ID cards. Article 7 states that migrants should have a job within three months and private health care.

 

[brightn'ove]

Trust in politics was already very low, with pretty much eveyone. Around half of people will like the fact that Brexit will be stopped. Around half will hate it.

But all will be forced to take note that their views, and their votes, don't actually matter.

If you think there aren't going to be severe consequences as a result of that, I'd suggest you haven't yet taken a step back from the side of this particular debate that you are on and looked at the bigger picture.

Democracy depends on consent, and consent depends on trust. When trust is lost so is democracy. & with that goes everything else. Maybe you think a society can carry on in the face of that regardless. Maybe you are right. But I worry about what that society will come to look like, and how it will manage to function without eventually degenerating into something ugly.

They have only voted against the absolute stupidity of no deal, don’t worry I’m sure you’ll get your brexit, it just won’t be as devastatingly idiotic as leaving without any deal.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yep.

Mystic Meg strikes again.

There was me thinking that quite a few in Parliament want Brexit but with a deal.

 

[The Clamp]

Corrected for you.

Seriously, “comedy” correcting of other’s posts is just about the most pathetic act of a desperate poster.
The referendum was the total antithesis of democracy. Implemented solely to try and save Cameron’s political career. It was then seized upon by opportunistic racists and profiteers such as Farage to better their own lot, spinning lies and corruption into the process to fool a public sick of politicians letting them down into voting for the ultimate political let down, Brexit.
The only democratic thing to do now is to reverse article 50 and remain in the EU.

There won’t be much public unrest. I know this because most of the people that voted leave never gave much thought to the EU before the referendum was announced. Where were your protests and campaigning to leave before 2016?
Quite.

No Brexit.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Mystic Meg strikes again.

There was me thinking that quite a few in Parliament want Brexit but with a deal.

Oi

 

[dingodan]

They have only voted against the absolute stupidity of no deal, don’t worry I’m sure you’ll get your brexit, it just won’t be as devastatingly idiotic as leaving without any deal.

There will never be any deal which parliament will vote for, and they will always block no-deal.

People can vote to leave the EU, they can vote for MP's based on their promise to honor that vote, but in the end, the people have no power, they have no say.

Brexit will never happen. Remain, by crook or by hook, will be the end result.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

this isnt a fault of the Home Office, simply our system of citizenship and governance does not have "registration" of the population. its not like they havent tried, every time a ID card is suggested its roundly shouted down, we dont do that sort of thing. it would certainly have dealt with some issues if we had.

What a weird reply.

1) Who’s fault is it, if it isn’t the Home Office?
2) This is about residency, not citizenship. So quite what your points about “citizenship” and your example of ID cards has to do with this I don’t know. Have you got the two confused?

 

[dingodan]

Mystic Meg strikes again.

There was me thinking that quite a few in Parliament want Brexit but with a deal.

It's a game. They say they want a deal while there isn't one which can get through. Give them a deal which looks like going through and they will find a reason to oppose it.

All they have to do is oppose a deal and oppose no deal.

That, by default, means no Brexit, which is what a majority of MP's want.

The majority of the public, they don't matter.

 

[The Clamp]

There will never be any deal which parliament will vote for, and they will always block no-deal.

People can vote to leave the EU, they can vote for MP's based on their promise to honor that vote, but in the end, the people have no power, they have no say.

Brexit will never happen. Remain, by crook or by hook, will be the end result.

I hope that’s the case.

 

[dingodan]

I hope that’s the case.

I know.

One day you will stand up for what you believe in and expect your voice to be heard.

You will be brushed aside, you will be outraged, and you won't have a leg to stand on. You were happy to throw away the principle that power rests with the people. One day that will be a principle you will go looking for, only to find it isn't there.

 

[Lever]

I hope that’s the case.

....as I suspect do the majority of voters now.
If only we could put that proposition to the test in a referendum/confirmatory vote.
A 'good deal' would do for me as a poor second choice... but the government aren't really trying for that.

 

[WATFORD zero]

There will never be any deal which parliament will vote for, and they will always block no-deal.

People can vote to leave the EU, they can vote for MP's based on their promise to honor that vote, but in the end, the people have no power, they have no say.

Brexit will never happen. Remain, by crook or by hook, will be the end result.

The reason for that is very simple.

1. There is no 'good deal' to be had. It was a fantasy invented by the Leave campaign that has never existed and the one deal that did exist, a majority didn't want. That why Johnson can't begin negotiations with the EU, because he has no proposal to put forward.

2. 'No deal' is, and always has been 'project fear', just about in it's entirety and there's no majority for that either.

Think of it like adults putting a fireguard around a fire to protect naive young children. It's not so exciting, but You know it's for the best. Of course, there is one way to prove me wrong simply ask the electorate.