[Politics] Brexit

[Lever]

A victory for free speech, we can't have journalists being supressed by the rich and powerful

...but Banks did all he could to draw a veil over his secretive financial and political affairs and there are some who don't recognise that behaviour as potentially dangerous to democracy....

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Hardly, the ruling means that whilst there was no evidence to support Cadwallers claims of Russian interference, (a point the judge held up) the claims did not defame Banks because the allegations would only have been consumed by people in Cadwhallers “echo chamber”……..and therefore that group held a low opinion of Banks already.

In a nutshell…….unsubstantiated lies being made public in the press is hardly a triumph of investigative journalism.

How proud must someone be of a reputation that is so bad it is almost impossible to defame them?

 

[cunning fergus]

How proud must someone be of a reputation that is so bad it is almost impossible to defame them?

You are playing the man not the ball. The allegations made by Cadwaller were not proved in court by Cadwaller, however the judge ruled that the unproven allegations wouldn’t have defamed Banks as the only people to consume them held similarly prejudiced views.

You know the type……bigots.

 

[Lever]

You are playing the man not the ball. The allegations made by Cadwaller were not proved in court by Cadwaller, however the judge ruled that the unproven allegations wouldn’t have defamed Banks as the only people to consume them held similarly prejudiced views.

You know the type……bigots.

Like Banks then?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...logises-for-xenophobic-tweet-targeting-merkel

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/leaveeutweet-suspended_uk_5ac386e2e4b04646b6465e25

 

[cunning fergus]

Like Banks then?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...logises-for-xenophobic-tweet-targeting-merkel

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/leaveeutweet-suspended_uk_5ac386e2e4b04646b6465e25

I know, you don’t like him.

Let’s do it again, this is like Peter Sutcliffe being accused of the genocide of 6m Jews by a journalist.

The court process confirmed Peter was not connected to genocide as accused by a journalist.

However because the journalist had only loon followers that hated Peter, there was no “defamation”.

So are you a loon?

 

[Lever]

I know, you don’t like him.

Let’s do it again, this is like Peter Sutcliffe being accused of the genocide of 6m Jews by a journalist.

The court process confirmed Peter was not connected to genocide as accused by a journalist.

However because the journalist had only loon followers that hated Peter, there was no “defamation”.

So are you a loon?

Interesting and strange comment there. Why would I have any feelings of any kind towards Banks? I don't know him and neither do you!

As for the Sutcliffe metaphor, I am afraid that's a bit daft too.

We know 'the court of public opinion' (as so often expressed by tabloid newspapers) tries to whisk up emotion and dramatise a story/polarise opinion, but many people (me included) actively try to separate the verifiable acts that people do from the reputation they have garnered.

As you have raised it, I will look carefully again at this specific case but 'defamation' is by definition about reputation and a judgement on it must scrutinise Banks' behaviour generally.......hence that was the outcome.

Are you a 'loon' (whatever that means)? I don't think so, but you have prejudices, as we all have.... and so it's rather a silly question. Another go?

 

[cunning fergus]

Interesting and strange comment there. Why would I have any feelings of any kind towards Banks? I don't know him and neither do you!

As for the Sutcliffe metaphor, I am afraid that's a bit daft too.

We know 'the court of public opinion' (as so often expressed by tabloid newspapers) tries to whisk up emotion and dramatise a story/polarise opinion, but many people (me included) actively try to separate the verifiable acts that people do from the reputation they have garnered.

As you have raised it, I will look carefully again at this specific case but 'defamation' is by definition about reputation and a judgement on it must scrutinise Banks' behaviour generally.......hence that was the outcome.

Are you a 'loon' (whatever that means)? I don't think so, but you have prejudices, as we all have.... and so it's rather a silly question. Another go?

Your embarrassing yourself here because you’ve not read the judgement……here are paras 7 & 8.

7. Ms Cadwalladr does not contend that the single meaning is true. On the contrary, as she stated unequivocally in a letter of apology sent to Mr Banks on 25 March 2021:

“It was not my intention to make any such allegation and I accept that such an allegation would be untrue.”

8. Although the sincerity of that apology has been called into question (a matter I address below at paragraph 46 below), Ms Cadwalladr has not sought to withdraw from or dilute her clear acknowledgment that the single meaning is untrue. Ms Cadwalladr gave evidence that “there was no evidence” that Mr Banks “had gone through with the deals” (proffered via the Russian embassy) “or made any money from them”; or that he “had accepted any money from the Russian government or its proxies”. Nor was there any evidence “that Russian money went into the Brexit campaign”. Ms Cadwalladr also made clear that she had never thought Mr Banks was a “Russian agent” or a “Russian actor”.

Cardwaller’s allegations of Russian interference were not true a point she has accepted…….at best she was misguided at worst she lied. She apologised to Banks in writing. Anyone continuing with the Russian money behind Brexit innuendo is a loon…….25 carat, platinum plated, thick as mince………you know the type.

If there is a victory here it is that libel cases does not crush people………however whilst press freedom is important the press must publicise apologies for printing mistruth in a more responsible way. Cardwaller for example never retrospectively adjusted her tweets.

Chin chin.

 

[Lever]

Your embarrassing yourself here because you’ve not read the judgement……here are paras 7 & 8.

7. Ms Cadwalladr does not contend that the single meaning is true. On the contrary, as she stated unequivocally in a letter of apology sent to Mr Banks on 25 March 2021:

“It was not my intention to make any such allegation and I accept that such an allegation would be untrue.”

8. Although the sincerity of that apology has been called into question (a matter I address below at paragraph 46 below), Ms Cadwalladr has not sought to withdraw from or dilute her clear acknowledgment that the single meaning is untrue. Ms Cadwalladr gave evidence that “there was no evidence” that Mr Banks “had gone through with the deals” (proffered via the Russian embassy) “or made any money from them”; or that he “had accepted any money from the Russian government or its proxies”. Nor was there any evidence “that Russian money went into the Brexit campaign”. Ms Cadwalladr also made clear that she had never thought Mr Banks was a “Russian agent” or a “Russian actor”.

Cardwaller’s allegations of Russian interference were not true a point she has accepted…….at best she was misguided at worst she lied. She apologised to Banks in writing. Anyone continuing with the Russian money behind Brexit innuendo is a loon…….25 carat, platinum plated, thick as mince………you know the type.

If there is a victory here it is that libel cases does not crush people………however whilst press freedom is important the press must publicise apologies for printing mistruth in a more responsible way. Cardwaller for example never retrospectively adjusted her tweets.

Chin chin.

Much better, you are revealing your deep partisanship. I agree with some of your points but they are drenched in tendentious language which undermines the argument.

By the way, why not bother to copy the correct spelling of 'Cadwalladr' from your 'cut and paste' summary of the judgement?

Cheers

 

[cunning fergus]

Much better, you are revealing your deep partisanship. I agree with some of your points but they are drenched in tendentious language which undermines the argument.

By the way, why not bother to copy the correct spelling of 'Cadwalladr' from your 'cut and paste' summary of the judgement?

Cheers

Excellent progress here……..the facts of the case are clear, now it’s just how I convey them.

Dib dib.

 

[Lever]

Excellent progress here……..the facts of the case are clear, now it’s just how I convey them.

Dib dib.

Your response is half true; that is you have not conveyed your views impartially and they are views not a matter of clear fact....I do endorse one or two of them but certainly not the whole perspective. There are facts and then there are opinions on the facts and you seem to have blurred the distinction.

This is a different view, but not one to which you subscribe. Possibly you will acknowledge it is 'conveyed' quite clearly; possibly not....

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/op...adwalladr-shows-how-weak-uk-press-freedom-is/

What's with the 'dib dib' as a matter of interest? Are/were you a cub scout?

 

[nicko31]

Remainers Brexit...

 

[Wokeworrier]

Remainers Brexit...

View attachment 148920

To be fair, most Remainers knew there would be a global pandemic and a war in Europe back in 2016

 

[Lever]

To be fair, most Remainers knew there would be a global pandemic and a war in Europe back in 2016

whether you are right or wrong, the global pandemic has certainly been used persistently by the Leave lobby to camouflage the real negative effects of Brexit.....

 

[Wokeworrier]

whether you are right or wrong, the global pandemic has certainly been used persistently by the Leave lobby to camouflage the real negative effects of Brexit.....

I think we can both agree, ( any inforned person would) that the effects of a global pandemic combined with a war in Europe on the economic performance of individual nations has a far greater impact than membership of a trade block (see inflation rates in the eurozone and US). Unfortunately far too many people with an anti Brexit stance seem willing to conflate the consequences of the pandemic and war in Ukraine to score cheap anti Brexit points. Surely there are enough negatives about Brexit to concentrate on without resorting to this?

 

[Lever]

I think we can both agree, ( any inforned person would) that the effects of a global pandemic combined with a war in Europe on the economic performance of individual nations has a far greater impact than membership of a trade block (see inflation rates in the eurozone and US). Unfortunately far too many people with an anti Brexit stance seem willing to conflate the consequences of the pandemic and war in Ukraine to score cheap anti Brexit points. Surely there are enough negatives about Brexit to concentrate on without resorting to this?

I think there is a good measure of agreement, the fundamental difference being that for many people who advocated remaining it is not a trivial matter of point scoring.

Remain and Leave voters alike continue to endure the negatives of Brexit. The Leave lobby, perhaps understandably, finds it hard to face up to the truth of it, thereby are constantly being heckled by the rest.

 

[cunning fergus]

Remainers Brexit...

View attachment 148920

To suggest food and food products are cheaper in the EU is to support the CAP, a system designed to subsidise wealthy landowners………unwinding this will take time but other countries do not subside their farmers. FACT.

https://www.managementstudyguide.com/europes-controversial-common-agricultural-policy.htm

All the while we were in the EU we were hostage to the whims of the unelected EU cabal, and some food products became more expensive overnight. FACT.

https://www.supplychaindive.com/new...4-billion-aircraft-Boeing-agriculture/588723/

Bonnet du douche Rodney.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I think we can both agree, ( any inforned person would) that the effects of a global pandemic combined with a war in Europe on the economic performance of individual nations has a far greater impact than membership of a trade block (see inflation rates in the eurozone and US). Unfortunately far too many people with an anti Brexit stance seem willing to conflate the consequences of the pandemic and war in Ukraine to score cheap anti Brexit points. Surely there are enough negatives about Brexit to concentrate on without resorting to this?

I think any 'informed person' would agree that it's far too early to measure the long term impact of the Ukraine war. However, taking Covid and Brexit, the vast majority of 'informed people' (particularly economists) agree that Brexit has had a far greater longer lasting economic impact on Britain than a Global Pandemic.

Brexit ‘largely to blame’ for £31bn loss to UK economy, study finds

Brexit is “largely to blame” for billions being lost in trade and tax revenues in recent years, according to a new study by top economists. The Centre for European Reform (CEF) said that by the end of last year, Britain’s economy was 5.2 per cent – or £31bn – smaller than it would have been without Brexit and the Covid pandemic. “We can’t blame Brexit for all of the 5.2 per cent GDP shortfall … but it’s apparent that Brexit is largely to blame,” said John Springford, author of the CEF study.

“The UK ended Covid restrictions sooner than many of its peers, thanks in part to starting its vaccination campaign early in 2021,” he said. “That should have made its recovery from Covid faster than other countries, not slower.” The report added: “British politicians may find it difficult to ignore the central role of Brexit in the UK’s economic problems for much longer.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-cost-uk-economy-eu-b2098289.html

So, on the bright side, if the impact of the Ukarine war is longer lasting and even worse than Brexit and Covid, it will mean that only the second biggest impact on the collapsing British economy was completely self inflicted

 

[WATFORD zero]

To suggest food and food products are cheaper in the EU is to support the CAP, a system designed to subsidise wealthy landowners………unwinding this will take time but other countries do not subside their farmers. FACT.

https://www.managementstudyguide.com/europes-controversial-common-agricultural-policy.htm

All the while we were in the EU we were hostage to the whims of the unelected EU cabal, and some food products became more expensive overnight. FACT.

https://www.supplychaindive.com/new...4-billion-aircraft-Boeing-agriculture/588723/

Bonnet du douche Rodney.

The raging inflation, upcoming recession, staff shortages crippling the NHS, the Care Industry, Farming, Food preparation, Logistics and hundreds of other industries, the four fold and rising increase in asylum seekers crossing the channel, having the Johnson Cabal in power, loss of freedom of movement for British people, hundreds of businesses going to the wall, the ever increasing reliance on foodbanks, the unresolvable NIP/Good Friday Agreement issue which means we can never 'Get Brexit Done', the inability to implement JRM's 'act of self harm' import controls in order to 'take back control' etc etc.

All well worth it, so we could send the message that we don't like CAP (something that Britain had significant input to back when we used to have some influence in the world). And taking away British farm subsidies definitely won't make the current economic implosion worse

 

[nicko31]

To be fair, most Remainers knew there would be a global pandemic and a war in Europe back in 2016

The Johnson's crime syndicate continue to try and hide behind war and pandemics but the numbers don't lie

GDP growth for UK 2015 - 22 is 10%, France 18%, Netherlands 28%.

Next year only Russia in the G20 will have lower growth than the UK

Anyone fancy a trade war with our biggest trade partner?

 

[cunning fergus]

The Johnson's crime syndicate continue to try and hide behind war and pandemics but the numbers don't lie

GDP growth for UK 2015 - 22 is 10%, France 18%, Netherlands 28%.

Next year only Russia in the G20 will have lower growth than the UK

Anyone fancy a trade war with our biggest trade partner?

And yet……

https://www.cityam.com/boost-for-gl...-challenges-and-hit-highest-level-ever/?amp=1

More reliant on the Monkey Islanders than ever………delicious isn’t it?