So you don't do 'facts'? Okay. Cheerio.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
So you don't do 'facts'? Okay. Cheerio.
lawros left foot
Glory hunting since 1969
L
Your reasons for wanting to leave, are basically, you’re a xenophobe
a fear of foreigners. But, well done for admitting it.
Your reasons for wanting to leave, are basically, you’re a xenophobe
a fear of foreigners. But, well done for admitting it.
Despite the dreadful week, there does seem to be a clear strategy here. Boris is clearly aiming to be so "balls to the wall" on Brexit that The Brexit Party itself will be nullified in any General Election.
His first hurdle will be how to handle the 31st October deadline. Assuming that he does comply with the new law, he will at least be able to fight the GE by saying his hand was forced and that he simply had no choice. That would even be true and would probably prevent TBP eating into the Conservative vote too badly.
His second hurdle, and I would suggest this is likely to be a bigger problem, is fighting a GE against the backdrop of a fractured party. Over the years pollsters have consistently found that a divided party is political poison. Losing your brother and another minister within a few days plays into that narrative. However, a GE could be as much as a couple of months away. That could even be forgotten by then when so much is happening.
As I said in an earlier post, if there is to be another vote, I would sooner have a second referendum, as it would provide an update on national thinking on the defining issue of the day. A GE bundles up other issues and as such, muddies the water when it comes to claiming a mandate in anything pertaining to Brexit. However, I'm really rather excited about the GE to come. I'm a sucker for all this stuff and always pull an all-nighter where elections are concerned. The next one is more or less impossible to call. The Tories might be eviscerated in Scotland. Their vote might be hammered by TBP. Labour and LibDems might split down the middle and leave the Conservatives an easy stroll to a majority. We could end up with the mother of all hung parliaments. Who knows? Certainly not me.
It's really a shame that it's actually massively important. Stops me really enjoying it for the theatre that it is, as I can't help but worrying when that handcart is going to show up and take us all the hell.
His first hurdle will be how to handle the 31st October deadline. Assuming that he does comply with the new law, he will at least be able to fight the GE by saying his hand was forced and that he simply had no choice. That would even be true and would probably prevent TBP eating into the Conservative vote too badly.
His second hurdle, and I would suggest this is likely to be a bigger problem, is fighting a GE against the backdrop of a fractured party. Over the years pollsters have consistently found that a divided party is political poison. Losing your brother and another minister within a few days plays into that narrative. However, a GE could be as much as a couple of months away. That could even be forgotten by then when so much is happening.
As I said in an earlier post, if there is to be another vote, I would sooner have a second referendum, as it would provide an update on national thinking on the defining issue of the day. A GE bundles up other issues and as such, muddies the water when it comes to claiming a mandate in anything pertaining to Brexit. However, I'm really rather excited about the GE to come. I'm a sucker for all this stuff and always pull an all-nighter where elections are concerned. The next one is more or less impossible to call. The Tories might be eviscerated in Scotland. Their vote might be hammered by TBP. Labour and LibDems might split down the middle and leave the Conservatives an easy stroll to a majority. We could end up with the mother of all hung parliaments. Who knows? Certainly not me.
It's really a shame that it's actually massively important. Stops me really enjoying it for the theatre that it is, as I can't help but worrying when that handcart is going to show up and take us all the hell.
So you do you think Labour have lurched to the left or not.?
Hahaha! Good point! I missed that bit.
Mind you, it's a fair trek if travelling on the back of a snail.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
It was a joke.
The caravan site I go to in France has a satellite dish on each caravan, so I'm surprised you went to a backwards site in Cornwall with a communal aerial.
midnight_rendezvous
Well-known member
I mean, I could point you to information about how all that bit in the middle, you know, the thinly veiled xenophobia, is simply factually incorrect but I’m sure you’d simply ignore it (god forbid your opinions be swayed on the basis on evidence and facts).
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,349
Of course they have. What a stupid question.
But they haven't lurched as far as the Tories. I say "right-wing" but it's really modern neo-liberal populism like Trump.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
I bet you do.
My husband works for a firm where the majority of their customers are in Europe, so their jobs are in line to go, if we leave. Thousands of others are also at risk.
Swings and roundabouts.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The Sun! That explains everything.
D
Deleted member 2719
Guest
We were in Cornwall, first week of August. I like to swim in the sea. It was still fairly 'fresh'. The idea of spending the first week of September in a Caravan near the Lizard (at your age) would be enough to drive me into a darkened room where only applying dubbin to a pair of my old boots (fortunately they are not mouldy) would restore my equilibrium.
Hats off to you
Yeah, I bet you would love to spread dubbin all over me.
Rightly it is all falling apart for the narcissistic, duplicitous PM.
One small thing that's been bothering me. For those that are prepared to admit that immigration policy was their primary motivation in voting to leave, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but you are almost certainly fooling yourself if you think anything will significantly change as a result of our departure.
Have any of you travelled back into the country lately? If so, did you take a moment to look at the signs about the electronic gates? We have recently started admitting nationals from America, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea and Singapore though these gates. These nationals are now admitted with no questions asked. You may consider all of these nationals to be the "right" foreigners but let's consider a single possible point of contention here. American healthcare costs can be ruinous. The NHS will not investigate a person's entitlement to treatment before offering it. They are clinicians; not border officials. This means that American nationals now how a potential pathway to medical treatment that has been made much simpler by the removal of any human interaction at the border.
Also, immigration policy is still largely driven by the requirements of business and higher education establishments. If EU migration is restricted, it is almost certain that numbers will simply be increased from elsewhere to offset this at the behest of business lobbyists. Similarly, if we enter into trade deal negotiations with, say, India, you can bet that UK entry and visas will be very near the top of their list of demands.
Finally, are you assuming that Border Force will receive an increase in funding to deliver the standard of service you expect? Increased enforcement work to detect those here illegally? Greater investment in cutters to intercept threats in our waters? Greater training to assist a relatively junior workforce that was deskilled in order to offload all those older, more experienced (and therefore more expensive) staff? Best of luck with that.
Oh! And finally. For those of you that like to repeat "Australian points based system" on a loop, we've actually had a variant of that in place for over a decade now, since entry clearances were switched to the "tier" system in the mid-noughties. Are you happy with how that's going? Did you even know it had happened?
Immigration is the reddest of herrings in the Brexit debate.
Have any of you travelled back into the country lately? If so, did you take a moment to look at the signs about the electronic gates? We have recently started admitting nationals from America, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea and Singapore though these gates. These nationals are now admitted with no questions asked. You may consider all of these nationals to be the "right" foreigners but let's consider a single possible point of contention here. American healthcare costs can be ruinous. The NHS will not investigate a person's entitlement to treatment before offering it. They are clinicians; not border officials. This means that American nationals now how a potential pathway to medical treatment that has been made much simpler by the removal of any human interaction at the border.
Also, immigration policy is still largely driven by the requirements of business and higher education establishments. If EU migration is restricted, it is almost certain that numbers will simply be increased from elsewhere to offset this at the behest of business lobbyists. Similarly, if we enter into trade deal negotiations with, say, India, you can bet that UK entry and visas will be very near the top of their list of demands.
Finally, are you assuming that Border Force will receive an increase in funding to deliver the standard of service you expect? Increased enforcement work to detect those here illegally? Greater investment in cutters to intercept threats in our waters? Greater training to assist a relatively junior workforce that was deskilled in order to offload all those older, more experienced (and therefore more expensive) staff? Best of luck with that.
Oh! And finally. For those of you that like to repeat "Australian points based system" on a loop, we've actually had a variant of that in place for over a decade now, since entry clearances were switched to the "tier" system in the mid-noughties. Are you happy with how that's going? Did you even know it had happened?
Immigration is the reddest of herrings in the Brexit debate.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 30,608
It is incredible to think that right of centre, pro-Union, pro-EU establishment, middle class types have just been disenfranchised. These are the sort of voters that gave us 18 years of Tory government in my teens and twenties.
GrizzlingGammon
Well-known member
- Dec 15, 2018
- 1,806
You do have the look of an old grubby Chesterfield.
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,349
They do appear to have thrown away the label of being the party of business
Pissed off the Police force by attempting to politicise it for the case of no deal.
Bent over backwards to appease their members at the expense of the electorate.
D
Deleted member 2719
Guest
Why have an election when the Tories are tearing themselves apart
Rudd had it coming, she needed fishing out a long time ago, she was a hard remainer and even argued her point live on the tv debate.
Good riddence.
Murray, this bunch are like a pack of hounds baying for blood.
They keep trying to persuade themselves that they are acting in the public interest, well their not, they are just living in a bubble.
The public voted Leave, you know It, I know it and 17.4m know it, but the visionless can't even see that.
You right in not wasting time In these people, I will let them spend time convincing themselves, they tend to like doing that.
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,349
Says it all about the current state of extreme politics and those who support it.
Stalin loved a purge.
Hampster Gull
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,462
Your time is up mouldy, you can ramble as much shit as you want but we are taking back control
